(00:02) we have been duped by feminism sexual Liberation and anti-depressants we have been told that we are powerful and free now as women but we feel tired wired and bitter we’re mostly eating right exercising and meditating wrangling to-do lists and arranging playdates and yet there’s a haunting hollowness beneath the huge complaint what if I told you that there is a huge Storehouse a reservoir of energy inside of you that has not been tapped that you could feel light and pulsing excited and alive in ways that a wellness lifestyle
(00:49) cannot deliver that you could trust yourself that the world could feel safe and that unexpected and expected Delights could start to illuminate your path no coach therapist doctor or Guru required just you learning to get real present and attentive with you I feel like I’m here to matchmake your inner parts for the greatest love affair ever written I want to help you learn first where you’re buying eggs from the hardware store which is the source of all pain I want to help you master entering through the upset which is the
(01:27) only spiritual practice You’ll Ever Need and to get real comfortable putting on your villain Crown which is in my opinion the key to True power and then you’ll attune to your inner yes so you can live the life defined by the specific pleasure of who you are I am so excited to announce my latest book called The reclaimed woman which is available for pre-order now so if you head to the link in show notes you can learn more about bonuses events and companion offerings and I cannot wait to see your gorgeous face on the
(02:07) [Music] path I’m Dr Kelly Brogan you may know me as a New York Times bestselling author of a book with an exploding pill on the cover Renegade psychiatrist pole dancer or honorary member of the Disinformation Dozen what can I say I’m a born provocator I’ve spent most of my recent life exposing deceptions connecting dots and discovering the secret places my inner victim is still waiting to be liberated and now I feel called to help you reclaim all of your parts your health your sexuality your power and
(02:44) your expression so that you can finally truly own yourself I want to ignite in you that inner knowing and the pulsing Vitality that lives beneath your disempowerment disconnection and resentment so that you can audaciously courageously and playfully alchemize your struggle into the specific pleasure of who you are this is Reclamation radio a soulfire production hello and welcome to Reclamation radio I am here with my friend and Ally and in many ways spiritual Father Figure Dr Tom Cowan who I am excited to be in conversation with
(03:25) not only for this hour but also for an event that we are collaborating to put together on February 25th that we’re calling Science and Eros so we’re going to present to you sort of an hors d’oeuvre conversation around the reality of science whether it’s biology history medicine all the way to relationships and the ways in which these same patterns of deception and illusion and self- betrayal can show up in so many different dimensions of our life so welcome Tom I’m excited to chat today thanks Kelly and it’s always interesting
(04:04) because you know we’ve had a chance to talk outside of being recorded and I think usually when you talk to somebody it’s kind of builds upon the previous conversation but then I realize the other people haven’t been part of the conversation so I can’t assume that they know oh yeah well we talked about that before so it’s true yeah and that’s why I’m excited actually about this event because I I intend and I know you do too for it to be like a compendium like a summary a sort of like capture of so
(04:39) much of what we have been talking about which is the ways in which all of these different topics are connected and I always tell you you have so many Pearls of Wisdom that are scattered all over the Internet and they need to be put together in one place so I I feel like it could be a satisfying experience for so many who who resonate and I know that one of the things that we both agree on one of many things is that the truth is not scary right and I I’ve often reference that one of the one of the ways I know you’re enlightened is
(05:12) because you are funny because you have so much levity and lightness and you crack me up all the time and the way that you handle these very grave truths is with a very light touch and I think that you know you and I both see how if you don’t question question deeply enough you can get trapped in this this layer of truthing if you will this sort of superficial realm of inquiry which is actually pretty scary right like if you don’t question deeply enough around I’m sure one of the topics will touch on
(05:47) which is you know contagion infection germ Theory you could end up just applying you know endless amounts of of vitamin C and zinc or whatever to your fear of other people’s bodies and the invisible enemy and so what I think we like to do and and you are far more advanced of this than I am is to just keep going keep questioning you know keep asking is this true how do we know that this is true and that that’s I think you know how you would Define free thinking right yeah and you know there’s I I mean there’s a whole lot I could say
(06:21) about that but one of the things is I would say fortunately but maybe unfortunately up till now in my life and I’m you know not a spring chicken as they say but I have rarely run across things that I would say there’s no way I’m going there right and I hear that from a lot of people like I’ll say something which to me is just like somewhere between interesting and funny yeah that’s a good place yeah like this isn’t the way you were told like there’s no virus and some people it’s
(07:00) seems like it sort of threatens their whole way of life almost like almost like I can’t live unless that’s true and I think to myself what’s the big deal like if there’s no virus there’s no virus like why why would that be a sort of quote Soul crushing experience so in some ways I’ve been blessed that I haven’t really run into that that on the other side of that is I have a feeling it’s coming that there will be something I don’t know when that wait a minute like and I’ll have more of an
(07:42) understanding of what people are going through like I get to the point where that just I just cannot go on like and I don’t know what that’s going to feel like because I really haven’t been there and I don’t think I will like it but but I’m ready I’ve been preparing myself for it and I think that’s you know when I think about also what we’re trying to do with this Summit and I would say and I know we’ve talked about this a little bit and I you know I think I’d love to
(08:15) hear your opinion on this too I’ve kind of decided in a funny sort of way even though I spent a lot of my time like quote teaching people that I’m not really doing this to teach people anything or certainly not convince people people of anything I’m only doing this because I wonder whether it’s right or not and somehow looking into it deeply enough to give like a talk on something like I don’t want to sound like a total idiot so I get up there and like I don’t know what I’m supposed to
(08:49) say next So and I’ve had occasions where I’m in the middle of saying something publicly even and a lot of my things I think you know are live and I have this feeling or this sense of wait a minute this isn’t true and then what do you do or what do I do and so I do I back off do I I’m usually pretty good at skirting my way around that so I hope that people see this as somebody’s exploration into what is real or what is true or I don’t know what the word is and that somehow it helps well I mean I don’t even know if it
(09:32) helps you I think it will to hear somebody else on that path what they have come to but I’d love to hear your take on yeah I mean I think that’s why our our work is so complimentary because as you know I have many perspectives on why people cannot change why they cannot think freely and some of the like humble origins of the ways that we get stuck and how it is that our framework even if it it’s a scary one can meet our needs right and we we sort of build an entire lifestyle based on these beliefs and the
(10:10) change associated with those beliefs would restructure our lifestyle in such a way that maybe our primary needs wouldn’t be met but I think that one of the reasons that you can’t relate to so many of these folks is because for whatever reason I’ve observed that you don’t have change coupled with being bad and wrong and what I mean by that is that for you to I’ve heard you say it a million times like I was wrong about that or I don’t know or maybe this is true maybe not right so not only can you
(10:44) rest in uncertainty with a a good degree of comfort but also for most of us to change implies and this is like a sociocultural reality I think to change implies that we were wrong before right that we were bad even before and to withstand that is really largely impossible for so many of us right if I you know realize that smoking cigarettes is not for me and I stop smoking cigarettes well then when I was smoking cigarettes I was wrong about that I was like the bad girl doing that and if we can uncouple those two things and we can
(11:24) actually Delight in change and the discovery process and even hold all of these past versions of ourselves like I’ve heard you say that there are even things in past books that you’ve written that you now wouldn’t write so like you kind of wish you could like go back with an eraser and that’s also delightful it’s like wow look at look at this process of evolution and when we can sort of reassociate or newly associate change with something that actually feels enjoyable let alone empowering
(11:56) then we are way Freer way Freer to yeah yeah I think it in a way like I think this was sort of a gift to me from I don’t know where but this path of I think this and then I investigate it and then I was find out I was incorrect has always felt like a good thing even though looking back I mean I would have to be a total fool to think that I got it right if I just examine what the things I’ve said and written over the years I mean it’s not even close and so I would have to deny so much reality that you can even is
(12:42) written on a paper so I I happen to look for these quotes and I think this sort of encapsulates what I’m doing now and I think what this Summit is going to be about for both of us and also that I didn’t even realize how long I’ve been doing this but when I I remember when I got into medical school like the first thing I did was I read all of Sherlock Holmes because I thought well he’s a Doctor Watson was and he knows how to think and so if you’re gon to be a doctor you got to know how to think and
(13:17) so here’s a quote from Sherlock Holmes to Watson how often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible whatever remains however improbable must be the truth right you don’t have to know what’s real you just it’s like looking for the pot at the end of the rainbow you just Shed off what isn’t real and somehow you arrive there where it is real this is another one from a guy Richard Rose who I don’t even know much about him but he says once a person steps on the path that is no path
(13:55) there will always be tempted always challenged unless you have an unshakable commitment to this work you’ll get sidetracked by everything that comes along and there are lots of pretty Illusions out there the path to truth is very simple you make a commitment for truth and then whenever you come to a Crossroads where you have to choose between the truth and something else you choose your commitment to truth that’s all so you know when I think about so what am I going to present it’s presenting the road that I’m using the
(14:34) method the method is eliminate that that’s not true that doesn’t pass the logic test the reason test the smell test Etc you know there’s another one from a really interesting guy Leo Tolstoy everybody knows him progress consists not in increase in truth but in freeing it from its wrappings the truth is obtained like gold not by letting it grow bigger but by washing off from it everything that isn’t gold and when I was 20 I didn’t real I can I can stop there but I didn’t realize that’s what I was doing but now
(15:14) in retrospect I think that’s what I was doing and of course then you make mistakes but you find yourself closer and closer to the pot of gold and I’m not sure what the pot of gold actually consists of hope to find out one day but that’s why I love partnering with you so much because you are looking at things is this really so do I have to be like this who told me to be like this why did I become or decide this is who I am or this is reality because if it’s not true it’s going to prevent you from you know
(15:58) on a simple level healing right that’s why you get sick because you believe stuff that isn’t true you know and I have so many examples you I have friends they believe there’s a virus Guy anthroposophical Doctor believes there’s a virus spends his whole year giving HIV drugs to AIDS patients gets the shots fourth shot kills them from a blood clot why did he die because he believed in viruses right it’ll kill you so if you don’t want to be killed which what most of us or you don’t want to be sick or in
(16:37) a way it’s not so bad to be sick probably not good to be killed but to be sick means your life the world is showing you this is an obstacle that you haven’t looked at yet that’s a great thing even once you see it like that then it does it’s like you it’s not scary anymore it’s a gift yeah there’s so much overlap with the relational integration and healing process because first you have to identify your no right you have to identify what is not working you know I call it like where you’re trying to buy
(17:15) eggs from the hardware store where you are trying to Source something from The Impossible place that is not available there Health from the alpath system right and once you identify what is not working where you are like stuck in that that you know sort of infinite treading water then you’re liberated to understand like what it is that you actually want and what actually you know is is going to inspire you know your lived experience so yeah I I’ve come to the same especially as I explored health and I would say specifically germ Theory
(17:48) but also cosmology that I I came to the same conclusion like once I have a good idea of what I learned that is not actually true and here’s why then it becomes just sort of like a a playground exploration of what might be and entertaining different ideas without attachment and you know we and our colleagues we talk about the fallacy of replacement right how often it’s the case that when people are presented with the cognitive dissonance of this is not actually true this thing that you learned in grade school or whatever this
(18:16) is not actually true they want you to tell them what is true right so if it’s not you know if if rabies doesn’t come from a dog bite then what is it you know and that’s actually right a logical fallacy it’s not actually part of the investigative process to also come up with the secure and valid truth it’s the responsibility of those interested in in thinking freely to Simply identify what is inaccurate so I would love to touch on what you think because I know you’ve identified so many of these
(18:50) Do you think you could choose, like, three of your favorite untruths? that you’ve been exploring they could be however big or however small yeah and also to say all these errors that you’ve spoken about that I’ve made and I speak about them they all as far as I can see well they come from three sources one laziness you know I just didn’t do my homework and and then the second is I believed that’s quote dominant narrative without looking into it enough so I just said there was a chickenpox virus but I didn’t actually know there was and the
(19:30) third reason is this I gave like what is the truth because I got suckered into it because there was something in me that felt uncomfortable with leaving it as I don’t know what rabies is even though I actually now I probably do but I didn’t then so I gave some answer to try to resolve that discomfort in myself and it’s always wrong the giving an answer to resolve a discomfort in in myself always seems to come up with the wrong answer that’s not how you get the quote right answer you get the right answer by
(20:09) doing the same process is it real is it logical does it you know is it feel right is it intuitive can I do a control experiment and all that stuff once you do that you may be able to come up with what’s true so with having said that so the answer to I don’t know what the answer the three number one is viruses aren’t real and the reason I say that is a it’s really important now right and not only is it important because it ends the whole thing we’ve been through in the last three years it also gets you
(20:47) out of this what I now call like the bone pointing of the so-called Freedom Movement who are all about scary lab leaks and how horrible everybody’s going to die and all this that’s just they bone pointing is like Shaman’s pointing their finger at you so you you make yourself sick not that the shots are good you know that’s ridiculous but you’ve got to get to the bottom of this which is there ain’t no virus never has been easy to prove that’s like kindergarten once you get through that
(21:24) it frees up so so this huge thing which everybody believes and you can’t go down the road of “well, everybody” believes it or or what do you what do you think about these people they all you know none of these stuff that’s all off the table the next is something to do with history because and the reason that’s important and this is what I would call an unproven hypothesis very unproven and I’m just going to explore this in the event but is it possible that the way we are living now especially with regard to
(22:03) Healing ourselves and healing the world and caring for the natural world is actually not even not the best way it’s ever been done it’s not even close and that there has been a way of seeing biology and seeing all living things and seeing how we were that people have known about used that has led to a way of life and outcomes that we can’t even imagine and the reason we don’t know about them is because we believe in basically historical lies like we’re always getting better and better and better and we’re the best
(22:54) that’s ever been and I don’t really think that’s true and so once you get out of that people can start saying wait a minute you know you think you mean people actually knew about like how to heal and how to create a harmonious society and I’m not sure that they did but I have some I’ll present some reasons why I think that may be true I mean it’s interesting right how Insidious that sort of linear Ascension is so much of our programming from the biology of evolution all the way to the
(23:30) role of our Superior technology and this idea that of course everything is evolving for the better now and this idea of that it’s like nonlinear or spiral or in otherwise like fragmented timeline is totally anathema to most of our Consciousness so that’s yeah Rabbit Hole yeah it’s a linear Ascension we believe in the truth of linear Ascension in, you know, basically everything every aspect of life and I tell you when you start examining the evidence that whether it’s Evolution or genetics or
(24:08) even that there’s such a thing as DNA it is laughably incorrect and that then it frees you one to say so what do these people know and how does this work and what you know how did they do this and may be that there’s a whole blueprint that we could ReDiscover and so again to me that’s not scary that’s fascinating you know like and because we even have friends you know like eileene mcusic who’s you know there was this whole thing about sound healing and so now we have people who are looking into simatics and trying to
(24:49) recreate it in a sense in a format for us I don’t find that scary at all I’d rather be treated for back pain with tuning fork than opiates you know because opiates don’t work and they make you sick and I don’t know why we we would think that’s scary but we do and that’s the problem so that’s the second one that’s probably enough truths right [Music] there so if I had to come for the 25th yeah but yeah it’s a process of and you know I don’t expect anybody to believe me oh I think history is linear and
(25:31) evolution is real and DNA is exactly what they say it is that’s great what I’m only asking is let’s look at the evidence because if you get to a position not you but and this is what happened we both know this so many people no I’m not looking at the evidence like why not yeah I think about how when you are because you know I look through this this lens of our upbringing all the time and when you are raised in a an environment of insecure attachment and emotional immaturity you know with your primary caregivers there are so
(26:05) many things that are not modeled for you and one of them is actually listening right so that the simple Act of listening to someone is is one of the Hallmarks of secure attachment where you can actually take somebody in and quiet your own self sufficiently to not be just waiting to interject your perspective or waiting to sort of commandeer the communication where you can actually take it in and not feel that it threatens you to be exposed to something that you don’t fundamentally agree with right so it’s it’s really a
(26:37) deep topic right like how can we be separate individuals having separate experiences and maybe even living in different realities but still interact right like how can you know we just listen and you know I I think it’s like bernardette Healey or somebody who had this quote about like no one should be threatened by by the process of inquiry right like why are we threatened by inquiry and I think it’s it actually stems from that place right cuz why couldn’t somebody who fundamentally disagrees with you fine as you’re saying
(27:06) fine but what would it cost to Simply listen and it costs a sense of safety a sense of you know uh security that’s sourced by preserving and protecting like our own Camp you know so it’s it’s a deep issue that we’re we’re bumping up against here especially you know the kinds of questions that you’ve asked you know because because there are number of untruths that you’ve exposed and they even you know even in I like you’re like the rhetorical police now because like there’s so many words that I can’t
(27:38) freely use anymore you know like antibodies and cell and you know DNA and you know genes because I have been compelled by the research that you’ve done into you know what may ultimately be a consensus reality that’s built on these Concepts right and not actually science scientific evidence you know because you’ve gone there and what would it cost someone to just listen you know to where you’ve gone well sometimes it can cost a lot and I think I hope you know what we can do and offer to others
(28:12) is if you’re somebody who finds this compelling you know and and exciting and inspiring you know you’ve taken the time to do this exploration and research and I find you to be extraordinarily trustworthy in in part because you admit when you don’t know right you don’t take that bait maybe you did in the past and and certainly I probably still do today you don’t take that bait of you know offering the explanation when you could just sit in you know what it is that we know isn’t true and there’s a lot of
(28:44) things I mean it’s like when you just ask the question how do we know this you come up empty-handed on a lot of these topics right yeah well and that brings up too an interesting question of that I want to just put out there so why did I want to partner with you in this and it’s it’s very clear to me so I’ve spent my life looking at these subjects like is the heart a pump and is cancer genetic and are there genes and you know are vaccines safe is water just wet yeah is all you know all that stuff but I’ve
(29:21) spent not not that I’m not interested CU I have been but as far as like asking the question or or trying to understand how did a human being including myself how did I get in the situation where I couldn’t ask that question or couldn’t understand what people said and I just said I don’t know people are stupid or you know something and then I started listening to you and by the way I don’t know if I’ve ever told you you were the first one who I heard say that there’s no such thing as germs causing
(30:03) illness and anyways so that was a huge thing for me because it’s a huge part of my life now so you talk about how you because that’s who we know best but then other people got into that situation where they see the world like that and again I never got into that so much just I don’t know why I mean I was interested but I didn’t know much about it and I didn’t look into it so much I was more like the mechanics of the heart and to me it’s fascinating a it rings true so much of it even though
(30:42) you don’t not necessarily saying it is true but here’s what I found same process I think or similar to me and so because I know I know more about that now than I did three years ago two years ago really because of our interaction it’s helped me be able to do what I’m trying to do better and then let other people know you know there’s a reason why if I say there’s no DNA making you determining who you are or that oxytocin isn’t why your child loves you that’s what people say oh my God how can you
(31:22) say that there’s a reason why you say that that isn’t about science or reason or logic it’s about like you know I don’t want to paraphrase but traumas and What’s happen to you and how you were raised and society and all the rest of it and it’s actually damn helpful to know that oh yeah I don’t have to go down that road I don’t have to fall in that trap of just believing something because my father said if you don’t believe it I’m not going to love you anymore like who wants to do that
(31:59) for the rest of their life I mean maybe some people do and they think they’ll get kicked out of the tribe and get eaten by wolves and you know fair enough but fact of the matter is that’s probably not going to happen right nor is it your job to facilitate that right I think as you know if you want to call it activists or teachers or you know healers or any of these positions of seeming Authority around what is true it’s very very easy to slide into that role of helper caretaker right facilitator of the truth and imagine
(32:37) that it’s our role to get someone to see something when it’s not personal right when they can’t and it’s not about you know it’s not about information I mean if that isn’t apparent yet with all of the the evidence available to you know cut at the at the root everything that has been proposed in the past several years then then you’re not paying attention but yeah no I appreciate that I remember when I shared I asked you to review my my second book and you said you said something to the effect of you
(33:07) know agreeing with with a lot of what I shared and then also that now you don’t have to write that book you know so obviously there’s you know you get it and there’s shared sensitivity around the nuances nuances yeah and here’s an example of that because I said a minute a while ago when I’m public speaking and it’s often live and I often or sometimes not often but I have the sense I don’t really think what I’m saying here is right and it’s hard because it’s live you know and
(33:39) somebody might hear it but one of the things is and it’s been with me my whole life and here I am I’m a doctor right my job is to help people and I would be saying something like yeah the reason I’m saying this is so I can help all of you people out there and something would go off in me it’s would say Tom I don’t think that’s the reason you’re doing this and and partly I remember being in medical school you know here we are all these people there was no way you could convince me they were there to help
(34:11) other people right right it what it was so not even close you know not even close but you know you go through life thinking even though my mother told me you know you don’t really seem like you want to help other people very much she told me that when I was like three and she was right but you go through life thinking it must be true because I’m a doctor right right yeah must be and then I hear you say you know that’s not really why we help people I mean there’s other people who’ve said it too but and it’s like
(34:43) such a relief like I can get off that right and then I can yeah I can just explore and share with people what I’m finding it’s much more fun this business of trying to yourself is exhausting yeah I remember the first time that I became aware of that was actually somewhat recently maybe like two or three years ago and I was thinking about when I started to work a Suicide Hotline in college and I don’t really know why I started to do that but that’s what led me into Psychiatry because I was like mentored by
(35:19) psychiatrists and recently you know like I said I started to recognize that I did that again not out of some altruistic impulse but because I had so little tolerance for human discomfort that I needed to be a part of the immediate solution so that I didn’t have to be ever exposed to somebody having a problem right now I knew how to immediately fix it right and part of the the fix is to relieve that that sense Within Myself of the enormity of someone else’s challenges right and I do think that’s why most people go into medicine
(35:55) is because of that little tolerance for another’s discomfort or a feeling of obligation or responsibility to manage or resolve you know a lot of us are what are called like parentified children right when we’re growing up thinking it’s our job to take care of our parents you know for for various reasons and it is liberating because you get through that you know you drop the mask of of imagining and that dissonance is not only felt within us it’s felt you know by others subconsciously semic consciously I mean I would have I would
(36:27) have done that I think because I would have if somebody says yeah you know Tom I want to kill myself I’d probably say well how are you going to do it and you know how did you arrive at that decision well you know my girlfriend left me and you know oh so what happened you know and I just it would just if some way be fascinating to me to hear and then I would be relating you know do that ever happen to me and you know did I think I wanted you know but it wasn’t like cuz I want to stop them but I think
(36:59) doing that and connecting with the person and working it out probably would stop them better than probably a lot of other things totally so at the end of this yeah at the end of that process it’s like yeah we’re actually we like each other why don’t why don’t we like yeah I feel better now hang out for a day or two more yeah yeah let’s uh you like going skiing yeah let’s you know whatever I love it so speaking of medical school I know that we share many many perspectives on you know the nature of
(37:36) health and also you know what makes you sick and I know that in one of your recent live streams you were talking about I think you talked about four reasons that you’ve sort of distilled around what sort of like why people get sick right so if it’s not their genes and if it’s not being exposed to Invisible particles you know or germs so-called germs it’s not their brain chemistry that’s like faulty then like what have you sort of come to as the the primary pillars to consider when we’re
(38:09) looking at illness in the framework that it’s actually a wise response on the part of the body that is inviting you right as you said to potentially explore something that is out of alignment or something that could evolve yeah I mean they’re not only invisible they’re imaginary it’s like postulating that the reason for blown up buildings is a invisible unicorn that’s been genetically engineered to be wired with explosives and then you say well can you show me one and they say well no because they’re
(38:44) invisible so why do people it’s four reasons one they have an injury or an accident in other words you fall off a horse now you can get into a whole lot of reasons why you were on the horse in the first place and that’s complicated but to a certain extent practically speaking you fell off your horse and you broke your leg so that’s how one way second way is you’re starving and that could be typically for like nutrients like food but could be For Love or support or emotional security or or truth or lots of things so there’s a
(39:23) starvation aspect you’re not getting what any normal living being needs in order to thrive and so your body will send you signals so that you go looking for that you’re not anxious because you have a disease you’re anxious because you’re starving and you want, and your body is saying you better go figure out you know how to catch a mouse if you’re a cat that’s not a disease of an anxious cat that’s a cat who knows so that’s two the third is is a huge one which is you’re poisoned so
(39:57) you can be poisoned from your thinking from your feeling from you know DDT or glyphosate or you know injectable stuff or Pharmaceuticals that’s a huge one I mean electromagnetic fields again thoughts Etc so that’s that’s a huge category and very creative people have gotten with how they poison people and the fourth which I didn’t appreciate so much until the last few years is I think actually the mother of them all or father I’m not sure you probably know better than I I call it delusions it’s the guy who thinks their
(40:37) viruses suspends his whole professional career killing viruses with toxic stuff decides to get an injection to stop him from getting a virus and it kills him so he’s you could say it’s the poisoning at the end which got him but it’s really delusional things and that’s where this truth Quest comes in if you insist on because of you know all the things you talk about traumas and whatever that you have to believe in nonsense it will get you because you will say I can’t tolerate this and so you will show
(41:21) yourself a Innovative strategy pointing out how little you can tolerate this situation and that’s usually in the form of a trauma or sickness or that’s why you fall off the horse because the only reason you were riding a horse is you know because your mother told you you had to ride a horse to be a healthy person or something you didn’t really want to ride the horse so you didn’t really learn how to ride a horse properly and then the horse knows that and says you’d be better off breaking
(41:53) your legs so you don’t you know have to have to go through this anymore you know bees will sting you in the place that they know you need because they’re trying to you know help you out so this framework is predicated on there being deep meaning right to any so-called symptoms or expression of so-called illness is that it means something and it’s a clue right it’s a clue to invite you to investigate and you know that reframe delivers you out of the field of fear and this triangulation you know against your body
(42:34) collusion with a system that knows better than you and you know you just corrected yourself and I do this all the time too way more than you do like refer to the body the nervous system and all these things like as if it’s not you right like you telling you about you and it’s just so deeply ingrained in our thinking in our rhetoric and the way that we move around that this body is doing something and then there’s me over here and you know when when we resolve that fear there’s like a natural reunion that happens and
(43:08) a sense of embrace of whatever it is that the body’s doing knowing that you know this there’s a message to our awareness right and how do we grow this awareness obviously that’s a big part of why we’re even having this conversation is because of the power and the Delight of awareness and you know that leads me to my last question which is is really you know why is it awareness like why does the truth matter to you right are you both of us are obviously very interested in deception right and the
(43:40) game of sleuthing What Lies Beneath and that’s a you know one of the Frameworks spiritually even for this Human Experience is you know lifting all of these veils so that we can come closer and closer to something that feels right and like a relief and like a oh almost like a funny thing you know like almost like this arrival at the smirk so what would you say is the reason that it matters to you like why do you even care so much about the truth because not everybody does yeah it’s a great question and again not to give away I
(44:20) sort of the punchline of the 25th but I’ll give it away sort of because I have a a hypothesis I think would be the correct word that we are all walking over the rainbow going home and home feels like the right place for us and the rainbow is the rainbow of shedding deception and so if you’re able to walk on that rainbow and the world will throw you all kinds of deceptions and obstacles you know and illnesses and yeah all that stuff and you just keep yourself centered and walk that rainbow because I’m going home and I have a
(45:13) feeling that home is the place to be and it’s a felt knowing I guess right when you arrive yeah I’m not because I’m not there so I don’t really know what it feels like to be but interest interes inly again a hypothesis is I actually am home but I don’t know it yet yes and so I will arrive at me and me happens to be the whole world and then I will see and I’d like to see that for myself and then maybe other people will see it with me and that sounds like more fun too [Music] your Intrepid curiosity is really a
(46:01) pleasure to behold and I am as excited for your presentations as I am to you know give my own and we’re bringing on some of our favorite friends for meditation embodiment movement music and creating an experience that I think I know will be like none other available because we are some pretty funny people the two of us and if you are listening to this after the 25th it’ll certainly be recorded and I I hope to create a ripple effect of inspiration and that kind of you know that kind of smile that comes to your face when you finally let
(46:40) go of something that was really yeah holding you back holding you down and creating a heavier experience of reality than is is necessary so I’m I’m delighted to be collaborating with you Tom thank you me as well and yes if people can take one more step on that path that’s a good thing because I know I will just the the sense of having to do this and get my self together it’s you know has already borne fruit for me what am I going to say yes I love it it’s a it’s a dialogue you know with those who also yeah resonate
(47:19) so thanks all for being in this conversation and we’ll see you hopefully on the 25th or at the next episode are
