(00:02) we have been duped by feminism sexual Liberation and anti-depressants we have been told that we are powerful and free now as women but we feel tired wired and bitter we’re mostly eating right exercising and meditating wrangling to-do lists and arranging playdates and yet there’s a haunting holess beneath the huge complaint what if I told you that there is a huge Storehouse a reservoir of energy inside of you that has not been tapped that you could feel light and pulsing excited and alive in ways that a wellness lifestyle
(00:49) cannot deliver that you could trust yourself that the world could feel safe and that unexpected and expected Delights could start to illuminate your path no coach therapist doctor or Guru required just you learning to get real present and attentive with you I feel like I’m here to matchmake your inner parts for the greatest love affair ever written I want to help you learn first where you’re buying eggs from the hardware store which is the source of all pain I want to help you master entering through the upset which is the
(01:27) only spiritual practice You’ll Ever Need and to get real comfortable putting on your villain Crown which is in my opinion the key to True power and then you’ll attune to your inner yes so you can live the life defined by the specific pleasure of who you are I am so excited to announce my latest book called The reclaimed woman which is available for pre-order now so if you head to the link in show notes you can learn more about bonuses events and companion offerings and I cannot wait to see your gorgeous face on the
(02:07) [Music] path I’m Dr Kelly Brogan you may know me as a New York Times bestselling author of a book with an exploding pill on the cover Renegade psychiatrist P dancer or honorary member of the disinformation doesn’t what can I say I’m a born provocator I’ve spent most of my recent life exposing deceptions connecting dots and discovering the secret places my inner victim is still waiting to be liberated and now I feel called to help you reclaim all of your parts your health your sexuality your power and your expression so that you can finally
(02:46) truly own yourself I want to ignite in you that inner knowing and the pulsing Vitality that lives beneath your disempowerment disconnection and resentment so that you can audaciously courageously and playfully alchemize your struggle into the specific pleasure of who you are this is Reclamation radio a soulfire production the conversation that follows is from my incredible collection faces of fierce femininity where I sat down with the 12 women who have inspired my embodiment Journey For Real raw and unsensored inspiration you can purchase
(03:26) the collection at Kelly Brogan md.com and at the link in show notes today I’m going to be speaking to meline moon and it’s really funny to me because just before we started recording we’re talking about how when you’re not ready to perceive something it kind of just gets like filtered out right and Maddie came on my radar through Whitney who’s another woman in the salon my coach and we were talking about how does a woman Express without words right like what does that even mean do that mean you throw [ __ ] does that you like just have
(04:01) Tantrums everywhere like you just pout all the time like what does that mean and she started to share with me videos that meline had made on this exact subject and I was hooked and I consumed basically like every free piece of content that was out there and then started to invest in her amazing you know little spaces and worlds in her platform and I ultimately reached out to you at the end of my relationship not knowing that it was the end because I had this stirring inside of me around something I’ve been studying you know I’ve been listening to
(04:39) David data for 10 years obsessively almost like a like a security blanket like I’ll just like turn on like a lecture or something and so I’ve been steeped in his anyway perspectives on polarity for a long time and it always sort of brought up in me this dualistic experience of almost like shame and a deep desire to do better as a woman and also the longing like the yearning for something my as my friend Charles would say like my heart knows it’s possible right and so I reached out to you because I wanted a polarity coach and I
(05:11) thought that that was going to you know sort of fix everything and I want to talk to you about you know the blind spots in the sort of polarity world and you had reminded me that I was on your podcast as like a guest on your podcast I don’t know 10 lifetimes ago and it was such a perfect example of like there is we probably had a great conversation I don’t even know and there was no way I could even appreciate you at that stage like appreciate what you represented or fully take you in and so it was such an example of having to like spiral around
(05:45) and around and around until I feel you know at this point I so see you woman you know like I so appreciate and see you and what you’re bringing to this space is is really essential so I want to sort of unpack some of the big topics ICS that I know you’ve spoken about and I’ve been to your various offerings on but I want to start out with just kind of getting into this subject of polarity and I’m assuming that most listening have heard of this either through me or elsewhere but what does this mean to you what does it mean in dynamic in terms of
(06:21) romantic relationship and does it have relevance in the rest of life like why should we know about polarity and and its import and maybe specifically as feminine Essence beings as women yeah thank you for that beautiful introduction so wonderful to be here I love these full circle moments yeah so polarity in the world of yogic intimacy so how can we create intimacy with our beloveds and with the world yogic that’s really what the the data body of work of polarity speaks to there’s a couple different types of polarity so I’ll
(07:05) speak to that one first that is looking at embodying these two poles the feminine and the masculine you can do that within yourself everybody has feminine and masculine and if you fully enter one of those poles and your partner commits to fully entering the other pole you create what is otherwise called yogic intimacy and The Feminine if she let’s say it’s a woman being in the feminine if she totally takes on that pole she becomes energy so there’s no more sitting still if she’s fully entering that PO she’s moving she’s
(07:41) revealing pleasure through her body she’s emoting sounds and moment to moment she’s showing how she feels about something like maybe she she likes the way he’s looking at her and she reveals that to her body maybe she doesn’t like the way that he’s looking at her and she reveals that to her body so she becomes the embodiment of energy there’s no stoicness there’s no Pokerface that would be more of like the masculine side so then the masculine is depth Consciousness a tree standing perfectly still breathing very very very
(08:16) deep the more energetic she gets the more or the deeper breath he invokes so when we do this together in Partnership like in these moments it gets really hot like it gets spicy like all of a sudden you kind of feel like you’re having sex without even taking your clothes off so that’s one aspect of polarity and it’s a great great great thing to do when you’re in a good relationship that wants to get better it’s like not the end all be all of fixing all the trauma all the attachments all the deep-seated issues
(08:55) and in fact if you go to that and you think that’s the answer that everyone listening to this often times it will mask those deeper issues and it’ll actually make you feel as a feminine being more repressed because you’ll love those ideas of like oh I’m gonna I’m goingon to show my pleasure I’m gon to move I’m going to be energy I’m finally finding a place to have permission to reveal like we’re looking for that as women we’re looking for a place to reveal our emotions and yet if you find yourself back into that box because it is a box
(09:29) and it’s own way it’s beautiful it’s Rosy it’s sparkly but it is its own box you find yourself there and all of a sudden all the things that aren’t energy like your stoicism or your depth or your lack of expression all of that stuff then becomes wrong or bad and it’s almost like you dig this deep well if you go into polarity work before first looking at the unsexy safety work just deep relational safety and consistency and like being each other’s character ERS so that’s that’s one of the the worlds of polarity and I’m not saying
(10:06) directly that you know David data is teaching these things I’ve actually never worked personally with David data I’ve worked with students of David data and I’ve been in this community for a long time I just don’t want to speak directly from what he teaches but rather what’s starting to happen in the polarity space but then there’s also much healthier versions of polarity like the way I like to think about it is just Shiva and shaki like energy and Consciousness without the have to or the musts or the gender roles that are kind
(10:36) of subtly insidiously snuck into this polarity world just Shivan Shati like presence means love and we can play with that to create sacred Union like we can play with that as two equals coming together and then there’s polarity in all the other ways of life like an avoidant attacher and an anxious attacher and and you know longing for someone and also hating them and not wanting them to be around like having a beautiful moment with somebody that you just want to love for the rest of your life at the same time knowing they’re
(11:12) not the person for you that’s polarity that’s like holding two oppositions at once so polarity is all around us it’s just like this dichotomy this opposition that we have to sometimes learn how to stretch and hold because the Opposites can be so intense and I’m sure we’ll get into today there are pitfalls in what’s starting to happen in the Romantic polarity realm that’s kind of fusing in fusing in selfish desires and trying to make it look like it’s sacred this is such an essential this topic and as you’ve so beautifully depicted to me is
(11:52) at the core of some of the deepest questions humanity is facing in this moment right of course it has to do with optimizing your relationship but the truth is that polarity can be war or it can be you know sacred Union in the most organized and harmonizing complimentarity and you know I love how you depicted all of those things that are highly dysfunctional toxic you know towards the end of of my relationship I was like really deep in embracing my inner colag right and and really deep in coming into you know Shameless Embrace
(12:26) of my dark witch and he was like flying into the light right like looking you know to transcend in all of these sort of like you know one love spaces and that didn’t work right like it did not work because the polarization ultimately didn’t offer a ready Bridge right and so so much of what I think you have experience with personally and professionally and just being in this space is when and how is the bridge available right like what are the conditions that create complimentarity out of these vast differences versus
(13:05) just sort of like a nefarious you know version of like you said manipulative indirect means of meeting needs and trying to find like the quick route to getting what you want and feeling in your power you know because I love the Shiva Shakti offering because I think and I want to talk about this that so much of what feels available in a properly polarized relationship is turning into like a playground what would otherwise be a battlefield that’s kind of it right and I’m very interested in you know BDSM and King Dynamics and
(13:40) and sort of like really finding like what is it to to play in those Realms of really delineated domains but the truth is if I was just in a relationship where when something hurt there was something alchemical that we could do together with it that sounds [ __ ] fantastic sign me up and I and so I can almost anticipate like what it is that you’ve experienced that I want you to share you know how how are you seeing you know data and and others they’ve been at this for decades right like we’ve been marinating in these teachings that there
(14:11) is a way for a woman to get what she wants and for a man to get what he wants in Dynamic but it requires that you get out of your own way right it requires that you learn a different response to habits of self-defense you know that you’ve acquired rightfully over your lifetime and you may be seeing that there’s like like me like people who want to just take the shortcut the highway to having like a hot relationship where there’s no conflict because we each know our place so yeah so so what do you think people should if
(14:47) they’re interested in exploring you know polarity Dynamics in in relationship let’s say what do you think are some of the sort of like red flags to maybe you’re not quite ready yeah or how it can be misused misapplied you know yeah I think I’ll speak to that some some of the I I’ll speak to some of the pitfalls that I just see in this space for it to be aware of so number one is there’s a lot of pressure on the feminine being to get to the truth of her heart the deepest part of her heart that is in anguish or in longing or in
(15:25) pain and anytime you have a problem with your Mas and partner reveal from that space and there’s even this teaching that I used to be a fan of I still think holds deep value of like moving from anger to anguish and I remember being taught that and and like there was so much deep value because there’s stages people go through when they meet polar when they learn about polarity so first it’s like living in life in reaction I think projecting on the people like you know you really like somebody but they’re not giving you the attention you
(16:00) want so you project onto them and then like kind of push them away rather than just saying ouch you’re not giving me the attention I crave you know so if you’re in that place learning about polarity can be super helpful because it’ll show you how you’re projecting your anger rather than bravely feeling your anguish revealing that and it’s polarity will give you such a beautiful permission slip in order to go straight into the heart of an emotion then over time once you you start practicing that you become more embodied in your anguish
(16:34) in your desires in your purpose and your meaning your what you say your intentional a really sneaky thing can start to happen so in the polarity space there’s this one teaching that I’ve never really jived with which is whatever the feminine being is saying masculine being always know that there’s something underneath what she’s saying so there’s something she’s probably not awakened to so she might be saying hey I don’t like how you cut off the phone call so quickly but she means something else and it’s the masculine
(17:11) person’s job to figure out what she means underneath that let me tell you that can be very frustrating sometimes it’s gaslighting because you’re like I’m telling you like I’m like you might first say I’m telling you I really want you to not da da and then they’re like you have a resentment underneath that and you’re not awakened to it and I need to help you find it and then you’re like no I’m telling you exactly what I mean because I’m a woman and I’m smart and I know what it is that I want and what I need to say to you because I’ve done my work
(17:44) this is what I want and then it’s like what I what I have experienced is getting provoked being like you’re resentful you’re not awoken to your own [ __ ] you don’t know this stuff and like then that’s when the sharpness comes back you end up back in the like like I’m telling you this is what I need and then you’re in like this totally out of polarity place you’re back to that kind of square one place where it’s like see like the that I’ve experienced that then a masculine practitioner will say see you’re not in your anguish you’re in
(18:18) your anger and you’re not soft and you’re not revealing from your heart and maybe you were at the very beginning and you weren’t trusted so then this really dangerous cycle can happen where you’re just going crazy because you’re doing your work you’re revealing your heart but it’s not perhaps not always but perhaps to some beings out there it doesn’t feel feminine enough it doesn’t feel at your core enough so you get provoked until you become sharp as a feminine woman and it’s the very thing you were trying not to do and this is I
(18:52) believe a lot of this comes from that one teaching that she’s not awakened to her own truth and that it’s the masculine person’s J because if he takes that role he’s actually making up a story which is the irony if he takes on the role is whatever she’s saying is not her deepest truth because she’s basically a child and a baby and there’s something underneath it he’s making up a story in his head about what she means we’re back into projections so I don’t like that teaching in the polarity world because it’s actually making men not believe
(19:24) what their women are saying and making women actually not believe what they’re even saying that makes sense and it sounds like there’s not really a role for anger right or or even expression of of Rage as a navigational guidance system for this man to recognize if he is himself out right because I I think of that that’s very I haven’t heard that teaching and I think of women as having like patural abilities to perceive beneath you know beneath the surface and what we do with that depends a lot on how we deliver that information
(19:59) and how it’s received and those dynamics of course I’m sure you would agree have a lot more to do with trauma than with anything else and certainly are not like necessarily behavioral strategies you can just simply you know put lipstick on a pig you know sort of like plop onto your pre-existing mess because what I’m saying is that women can also manipulate men I certainly have that way like we see something that you know they don’t agree with or they don’t perceive themselves but we know that it’s real and true because we have that shadow
(20:29) perception ability to insist I it’s it is gaslighting right so I could how that could cut both ways and and make it very restrictive especially if if the only thing you’re allowed to offer is you know the pout right or like right yeah exactly like you can’t like don’t use your words you know because you’re if you anytime and it is true like we’re looking at polarity anytime you say I need du like if I’m a woman I am and I say I need you to please do this I am guiding I am leading I’m in the masculine right there’s nothing wrong
(21:04) with that and there are many polarity teachers including myself who will lay that out and have no judgments we just encourage awareness so that you can start to see the Dynamics oh now you’re in the masculine and he might if he goes and does that thing as in the feminine it doesn’t matter there’s nothing wrong with that at all it only becomes a problem when there are teachers saying oh no don’t say I need that because now you’re in the masculine and then the teacher puts judgment on it or a teaching puts judgment on it it’s
(21:32) totally fine you should always have the ability to say I need XYZ you should always know that you are free to talk you don’t always have to make sound or make a face to like demonstrate how you feel and if you find yourself which I certainly did in a place where you’re learning polarity and you feel bad or you feel non-feminine for speaking your truth and you start to get like super just confused and manipulated in your own mind about I need to say something but I can’t say it so I need to reveal it in an Artful way over time it’s
(22:06) possible you’ll start to resent the very person that you’re trying to do that with because they’re a reflection of you of the ways that you you can’t speak your truth or you are afraid to speak your truth even if they’re not even asking you not to speak they might not even know anything about polarity but if you’re in a partnership where you feel that way that’s part of your initiation is to learn how to include polarity all the good parts in your life of how to be energy how to reveal pleasure how to be Sovereign without having to trade
(22:38) it for your voice your power your like mother Crone Soul you know and I there’s one other thing I wanted to say is that this teaching around she doesn’t know she’s not speaking what’s really true for her I think that also feeds in a bit to the ideal Maiden archetype M you know so there’s the maiden there’s the mother and there’s the Crone and Maiden energy is beautiful like it’s so fun to play in the realm of Maiden so like look at your beloved with the eyes of devotion and innocence and love but it’s only one of the three flavors you
(23:15) can also look at your partner Through The Eyes of mother like penetrating mother no [ __ ] mother Oracle mother Mama Bear mother and then you can also move into Crone wise at ease sitting on her throne you come to her so there’s these three different there’s many more archetypes but those are three of the main ones that many people know about and I think there is a lot of teachings that are formulated through the lens of a masculine being being with a maiden archetype of like the woman who needs to throw temper tantrums when she’s upset
(23:49) or like you know needs to reveal the pouty face or doesn’t know her deepest truth I don’t think that’s an issue with any specific teacher just like a patriarchal pattern that’s happening once again we’re finding ourselves in this place and what if we stopped looking at the feminine as the maiden we start looking at the feminine as the Trinity as shaki as uncontainable unabashed shaki absolutely I mean I think that this is it’s part of the woundology of it’s the mother wound right it’s part of like the consuming vagina dentata of the mother
(24:24) that most men who’ve been cerated by their mothers you know need and ire of women that they be subdued and submitted and again you know there can be a lot of play that can come from you know that being at least even contextualized in certain elements but I think when these Dynamics take on uniformity throughout the entire experience of a relationship there must be I mean I’ve never experienced it personally but there must be a sense of loss of self that can be extraordinary you know like the Bliss of annihilation or it can be very
(25:00) disorienting and that resentment seems like it it could crop up very quickly I mean I wonder how you think about I’ve heard you talk about your your needs I’ve spoken a lot about the needs that I didn’t even know I had honestly in in relationship because I was one of those [ __ ] who was like I’m low maintenance you know and when you don’t recognize that these needs are in whatever stage of integration or honoring or acknowledgement that they are and the needs are not being met we manipulate to get them met right we
(25:31) find ways to try to be right about how much it hurts you know to not right so you know obviously in data teachings and I’m sure others there is like that’s the second stage right like the first stage is like the me me me and then the second stage is like okay let’s discuss our needs and negotiate and we’ll see how compatible we are and it’s really unsexy and it’s really tempting you know to like fly over that stage into the Third stage where everything is just like magic and sorcery you’re in this alchemical like playground with your
(26:04) partner and as you’re saying you know there is absolutely a time and a place for the rightful articulation of of those needs what I found interesting especially with girlfriends of mine who have been exploring different models of relationship is what do you think defines a need right a relational need because there is a a lot of you know sort of psychos spirituality that really helps us to attune to the meeting of our own needs right so how do I fundamentally learn how to provide safety for myself so that I can at least
(26:42) recognize when I’m being matched in Dynamic and not require that from the outside in for example or what about like monogamy and Fidelity like what if you think you have a need for monogamy like I’m thinking of one of my girlfriends and and there’s a lot lot of deep spiritual work that could arise from loosening that rain and seeing what it is that comes up right what is the fear do you really need that right like what are the conditions that are required is it that you just need to be the number one right like just need that
(27:16) connection or is it that it’s the energetics of like sexuality with other people like how do you identify your needs and what role do you think that they play in sort of the building of intimacy with let’s say even a new partner is it the kind of thing you talk about on a first date you know like break your list out or whatever or is it the kind of thing that you do you know what I say is like enter through the upset like you find the places that hurt and the moments that feel bad and you learn something about what you needed
(27:45) you know in that moment that that wasn’t met you like how do you relate to these relational needs I guess such a great question I’m definitely someone who enters through the upset I like the way that you phrase that that’s like have I have like a running note in my phone where I like write things down once I learn them about myself and I don’t pull it out and show but I I like I don’t even remember like what are my top needs right now but they’re in my body like my body knows and I’m at that space where I’ve done like I think you know we’re
(28:17) looking at the chronological order of how we grow into our needs it’s definitely every relationship takes us closer and closer and closer and closer I think it’s really hard hard hard hard if not impossible if you’re doing the work even a little bit to go backwards to like go back in all my relationships they’ve always been upgrades moving forward and and sometimes when I say upgrade I don’t mean a smarter more successful taller man but more so that a deeper experience and so this last relationship was one of the deepest
(28:53) deepest relationships I’ve been in it is the deepest relationship I’ve ever been in and it’s very karmic I didn’t realize that till the end I was like oh that’s Karma like that’s karmic stuff cuz like the love was so massive so much love and devotion for this human even from the minute I saw him I was like I’m gonna follow you because I’m devoted to you I love you so much I didn’t really know it at the time but my body did it was just like I oriented towards him and that was a very very very interesting experience
(29:27) that took me very deep because when you’re a you know I consider myself a very powerful woman not as in like I can create everything I want but like I came out of the womb knowing who I was there was power and like I know what I’m here to do and I’m gonna do it no one’s G to get in my way like that’s kind of how I came into this world and I met this man who all of a sudden I was like I don’t know who I am anymore like I’m what is he doing like I literally this is the only way I can describe it because I would Orient my whole energy entic field
(29:59) towards him I still am pulling off the tendrils of that like I still can feel him I can feel what he’s doing right now there’s like a weird psychic energy and like that took me super deep like I didn’t have that I’ve never felt devotion in the way for a a human man like I did for him and do for him still there’s still like Essences of that in my body and for me like what I’m here to do is be in devotion like that feels like it’s my my genan key is life’s work it’s my purpose it’s everything is devotion and to be in Devotion to a
(30:37) human being who created so much Beauty and also so much pain and lose myself in ways in the process was an initiation of a lifetime I experienced so much and I never would have received that initiation of choosing me so I had to in the end make a decision to choose me yes and that has rippled into my work that has rippled Into You know I bought a home out of the breakout like all this stuff has happened and that was a massive capacity stretcher to walk away from something I was so devoted to a human being I was so devoted to and and
(31:18) turn that Devotion to myself it was painful it like felt like cutting off a limb in a way but I did it and like Karma has been like my ancestry and in some way has been cleared like some massive [ __ ] has been cleared and that you know that the need the need in that is a little bit hard to put into words because it’s like this it’s like this massive core experience that I know I’m going to be taking in all of my experiences moving forward and I wouldn’t trade anything in the world and I’m glad I didn’t get need that because
(31:52) it’s showing me it put in my body what it feels like for me to meet those needs myself that I’m doing it now because I didn’t have that so if you leave a relationship and you’re like okay glad that’s over GNA go date again you skip over that whole deep experience which so many women do because they’re afraid to feel you’re going to keep staying in that Loop of like not figuring out your needs but if you actually let the pain the painful experience of love that isn’t enough to be a lifetime love you know Love Is This Love with this person
(32:28) is so beautiful but yet it’s not meeting my needs to actually let the pain of that experience be like a garden and the soil is super fertile you can start to put in the seeds of what you’re taking a stand for in your next relationship and I talked about this the other day in one of my classes where I think breakups are a lot like sex magic like you’re blasted open in both experiences and some people plant I want a car I want this like in the minute of their orgasm because they’re field so vulnerably open it’s a
(33:00) great time to plant seeds Sex Magic is an amazing way to manifest so are breakups so are fights because you’re so open you’re so activated so if you plant seeds of like I’m a woman who takes the stand for equality I’m a woman who takes the stand for non-reactivity I’m a woman in those moments you get you can create it in a way that you cannot create it when you’re just in the second stage trying to like analyze you do this and I do that so you the the key to that is being brave enough to feel being brave enough
(33:33) to take off like you know clear the moat the crocodile infested waters around your heart let yourself actually feel the agony and the pain of not having something not feeling free not feeling liberated like you want to feel like free and liberated in love and if someone is trying to put you in a box you need to be able to feel the Heartbreak of not being free in order to plant seeds for yourself not for being a feminine goddess of love and light but just for you to reclaim what it is you are taking a stand for so I mean a
(34:11) transcript of my inner my inner Story I mean it’s I relates so so deeply to literally every single word that you’ve said and it’s funny because I know I’ve heard you use the phrase twinflame and I used to and and now my preference is karmic flame for sure because the Perfection of these relationships could not be designed it literally could not be designed from the place of desire for a partnership right so every single aspect including in you know in my experience over the past you know nine or so months every single aspect has
(34:49) delivered me access to yet another piece of myself yet another awareness of how I am abandoning myself betraying myself abusing myself and experiencing that you know mirrored back it’s an extraordinary space and I’ve been celibate since um and of course working with the fear that I will never have the love I want the love I want is too audacious it doesn’t exist you know like get over it Kelly or whatever and and in that vulnerability comes so much access to this shaki that vital force energy that otherwise would
(35:29) have been locked in the Realms of chronic unsafety frankly because until we can learn right as you’re saying to have this fluid relationship to our feeling states to the associated Sensations until we rebuild that trust with ourselves so we create the basic conditions for safety in our own life experience there’s like a very low ceiling on the pleasure creativity expansion Joy that’s even possible right so a lot of what you teach and talk about is related to creating art you know out of this kind of pain and that
(36:09) naturally like arose from my experience where literally like the week after in massive like I didn’t leave my house probably for three weeks just crying you know in like fetal position and literally like in the Rumblings of that space what was the desire to like create videos and start dancing in different ways and then to start writing about you know different things and certainly I wondered a couple of times on my like third article you know like while I was like sniveling I was like am I avoiding something here like is this a bypass and
(36:45) so I’d love for you to talk about like the best relationship to have what I think is invariably the creative impulse that comes if we don’t jump into you know a new relationship in the wake of Heartache or if don’t try to recruit millions of addictions that are at our fingertips to not feel the bad thing and of course we’re talking about breakup but this could apply to any loss any transition you know I I say that these moments of expansion come when you lose something you think that you would die without right that’s almost the
(37:15) signature it’s almost the hmor so what is a healthy relationship to creativity and to making art from your struggle do you think beautiful question so I think you know one of the ways that I think about heartache loss desire any emotion that is traditionally too intense for people to really sit with or want to sit with because it like stirs something in the soul that’s life force life force like your Chi it’s your Chi it’s like what brings you to life and it’s looking for a place to go so you know sometimes when
(37:54) our life force comes up so let’s call it anger or something like anger comes up because something injust is happening and it wants to come through and if we don’t know how to own our own experience of that life force because we’re in a polarity world where we’re not supposed to be angry we’re only supposed to have anguish or we’re afraid that our experience is going to cause a reaction in our partner and we want to walk on eggshells to ensure they don’t do that or we’re just confused if our anger is is just and we’re kind of gaslighting
(38:26) ourselves like am I owed to feel this anger am I being a crazy woman any of those and more that I’m not listing when it comes up if we have that stuff that kind of like creates a dam then the life force doesn’t dissolve it just has to go back in so it just changes its direction and oftentimes it causes us to collapse on ourselves and when you were speaking earlier to the ways that we as women can sometimes manipulate as well because of course we can that’s one of my go-tos that I would do in my previous partnership instead of standing in my
(38:57) EXP experience and just owning it and letting the chips fall where they may if he didn’t like it you know he would figure it out I would power and then I would go into like again the maiden archetype or something just kind of being like and then I would get more love from that place because that was a softer sweeter and I started to learn that after a while if I just kind of cower like I’ll I’ll do something big and then if I kind of collapse that life force back in on myself and my shoulders you know and I’m sorry you know like or
(39:27) like a cry or whatever it’s like easier for him to deal with that and to work with that and then now it’s like oh there you are you know so then I started to it didn’t start with him it started with my family so it’s not him he was just a really beautiful initiation to remind me that that’s a pattern of mine I need to fix it’s not even about him he’s fine it’s about me and how I react to others around me when they can’t handle my expression yes you know initiation again so it would go down and I started to notice this like ah it
(40:00) would like like the the life force would go collapse in on myself and it’s keeping me in this cycle and so creativity was always something it’s always been a path of healing for me ever since I was little and my really challenging family Dynamics I would write I would make something I would play music it was just a way I would write poetry I started a poetry blog when I was like the most depressed part of my life and none of it made sense but to me it did and it was like this is a way that I can ch my grief and my
(40:29) sadness and my Emon and to me personally some people disagree I’ve had people in my own masterminds being like are you avoiding just grieving and just feeling that’s not it’s never been natural to me to only do that for periods of time to only grieve for periods of time because I do it but I mix it in with ways that my life force can move some days I was in bed watching is it cake on Netflix eating cake and like that was my grieving process but then the next day I was like I’m going to make a video CU I have to move this out because I would
(41:07) feel it in my body it was just like it’s stuck like I mean who I might I would start the spotting and bleeding like it would move down because my WB would need to get rid of it and that happens for me a lot if I’m not really creating out of my life force I’ll start to spot I’ll start to bleed and it’s like a way that my body is like we’re not going to go this way we’re going to go this way we’re going to move out in some way but it is to me one of the most potent beautiful times to make pieces of Art and in fact my very short story I wrote
(41:42) a book in December with my you know my my previous partner we were still together and the week we first broke up because it happened a few times I found an editor of my dreams he was amazing and he he read my book and he was like this is a great book and you need to write it over you need to start again because there’s not enough structure and this is the same week I’m watching is it cake in my bed and I’m like how am I supposed to grieve love of my life at the same time that I write a book about love like there’s no way I can do this but then I
(42:20) was like actually this sounds great like I have a really Clear Channel let’s just let it on come through and it was it was challenging it’s not the ideal time that to write a book in my logical mind but I’m so proud of what has come out because I’ve I just finished the last final draft two days ago and so this whole breakup this book has been Rewritten and edited and worked on and like all of the stuff that I was unpacking and feeling was moving through in this book and there was a part of me that was like is this the worst time to
(42:55) write this and then I just think about all of the artists of the past all the music that has been born all the books that have been created all the paintings that have been done that have come through during these extreme states and this is the only way I want to live I mean I I don’t think it’s avoidance I think it’s avoidance only if you are compartmentalizing and separating the part you’re fragmenting the part of you that is in pain from the art but if you don’t fragment and you combine them and you let the part of you that is in pain
(43:25) live alongside the part of you that that longs and lives alongside the part of you that is an ecstasy and you move all of that together through a medium it’s how you heal it’s not in a disservice to Healing it’s where the healing happens and I encourage everyone to have less overanalyzing of that process and more trust just do it just make it just try it out experience it don’t think too much about it I love that it’s such a perfect example for so I’m so excited for your book and it such a perfect example of like who are you to think you
(44:01) know what the best timing is for this the best timing is the timing that it’s presenting itself to you and all of the reasons you know you could ultimately rationalize I mean it’s such an example of like the victim story you could have come up with you know about it that could have really stalled you in the water and instead you just alchemized such an extraordinary way and I’m sure energetically that’s G to be felt in every word you know in that manuscript and yeah and I and I love your encouragement to just just like make something do
(44:31) something and follow you know for me it was like really restoring trust in the impulse right because especially when you have the I’m too much program you doubt you judge you scrutinize you assess analyze every impulse creative impulse that comes through you you you try to anticipate how it might be received and whether or not you might be punished for it right and I think like very deep woundology for a lot of women because of our Vital well people I’ll say our vital force and Sexual Energy being coupled with something that is you
(44:59) know shameful or dangerous or unwelcome or otherwise makes us vulnerable to violation and it’s just such a confusing territory and to heal that Dynamic and these simple ways of just really honoring the the movement of energy into creativity I love it I love the message and it it’s real it works so you talked about this is probably unfortunately be our our last question but you talked about how you know I could like watch you move your body in response to these different kind of energetic states of you know you call it taking a stand like
(45:35) that sort of like taking up room like becoming bigger expanding versus sort of like channeling the energy back down even strategically manipulatively and so you could get the cookie right like that’s what I call it because I same way and and it was very valuable to learn how to soften right when I want it to be hard so it’s it’s all for for growth and I know just a bit about what you’ve shared publicly on your historical relationship to your own female body over your life has not always been this self- attuned self-possessed
(46:08) compassionate loving and in Allegiance right to yourself you’ve had a very different relationship to your body and one that might be described as sort of like a power over right kind of dynamic historically and I wonder if you could talk a little bit about like what do you think it took to that I experienced you as such an embod woman like full range of energies and what did it take like how how do you think you saw the opportunity to really lay down the armor in the very specific way that you were wearing it are you speaking kind of around the
(46:42) era of my life of being a bodybuilder yes okay just want to make sure oh man yeah there was such a judgment I wanted to be a boy like not even a man I just wanted to be a boy there was a part of me that was just like from being raised in this p patriarchal you know Dallas Texas from a very conservative family who was very Christian but not even just Christian like Christian mixed with borderline narcissism and like you know like God was actually my mother and she would you know speak for God in so many ways that were very manipulative and
(47:17) confusing and all the messages that I received around this ultimately led to women are servants they are to be obedient they are less than men and any woman who takes a stand in a way that only men can are not going to go to heaven they’re going to go to hell and I became a bodybuilder as a way to channel my self-hatred that was my that was the way the life force could move through me at that time I had no other tools I had only eating disorders and I had working out so either like my life force was not eating and kind of controlling like my
(47:54) man manipulating my body in that way or moving it through with pumping iron and like competing and being one of the guys who like doesn’t feel feelings and I was eating at one point in my life 238 grams of protein a day like that is a lot and talk about for me at 110 pounds which is crazy for my height I’m tall that created like this deep deep just like lack of feeling furrowed eyebrows couldn’t feel anything below my belly button there was no sex turn on there was no desire and I think one of the first things that cracked me open at
(48:33) that time of my life was there was a moment after the second competition that I did where I remember just feeling this deep deep grief of like wow I’m 22 this is the time I’m supposed to be the happiest the most full radiant and I hate myself I hate myself and I hate all these judges standing at their little desk raing my body and I I I felt just a little bit of anger in that a little bit of anger at myself for like giving this panel of six people permission to tell me like what my body ranked as anger at myself and anger at them and then like
(49:14) but then I felt it and I allowed myself to feel that anger and let it catalyze me into a new place and from that place everything was born everything was born from that little spark of grief self-loathing and anger so I’m so glad that I could feel that because it made me wake up and realize I can’t feel myself where do I start and where do I stop and why do I keep looking to this random group of people tell me and men and men personal trainers who would Circle my body in the problem areas and like I just felt loathing all around
(49:49) just like I want to feel what what is me I want to feel that and so that was 2023 probably when that moment happened and I found teachers to teach me about feminine embodiment and I’m so deeply grateful because it learned it taught me how to experience expression and like oh I know exactly how I feel about things now where I was before I couldn’t I couldn’t feel anything and now I’m like I don’t like that or I like that or I need this like I can honestly own my experiences of life and the places where I still Gaslight myself or feel confused
(50:31) they’re they’re like really deep because all the surface level stuff has been pretty much healed but now the issues that do come about are super super deep and invisible and it’s like kind of a Trippy area to be in where just like what’s feminine what is it really and I’m I’m feeling it as an invitation to step in deeper and it’s exciting and it’s expansive but all that to say like to answer your question I really am great grateful to those less than Stellar emotions because they’re what kicked off all the beautiful pleasure
(51:02) and Bliss and sexual intimacy that I now feel so accessible but it started with just owning my anger around not being able to feel myself when I was 22 and from that feeling even that tiny little Ember a whole fire was built it has led me here today so beautiful yeah I’ve talked about that I think we all experienced that moment maybe several uh I think of it as like a dark feminine initiation like when you finally get to the place where you can stand in that like righteous [ __ ] no you know and and really align with yourself you restore
(51:39) you know that connection and it’s I so relate having never been a bodybuilder but even just like an intellect like just being somebody who identified as an intellectual who literally I was totally unaware of a single emotion I Ever Had other than being my entire life prior to you know five years ago so I I think this is very valuable right because I think otherwise we can sort of get the idea like you were kind of Born This Way woke up this way or not right like that’s for her that works for her but like what about
(52:10) me I don’t even know what I feel like what is that even me and and to know that there is an arc right there is a journey there is a process of accessing that the armoring that is is very almost arable I love it on the heels of that mine I’d love to I love read to share I’m asking everyone this question what is your favorite tool that brings you into your body like let’s say you were to go back slide back somehow into that you know place of self recrimination or loathing or you know start to even interact with your own body that way or
(52:45) interact with the world in this you know sort of like Warfare energy what do you do what works for you to bring yourself back [Music] home well I have to be on with this question for me it would be creativity yeah it would be turning water into wine it would be looking for the ways that I can be an alchemist of my own life not just creativity of like not just I don’t mean just creativity all creativity is beautiful what I’m speaking specifically to though is looking at where I hold pain or longing or desire and how can I
(53:22) make something either for myself for a beloved or for the world that I get to blast out through that very experience because that’s the way to heal for me and for a lot of people so I would have to say that I love that this has been such a nourishing conversation I don’t use that word because I kind of find it gross however what comes to me and it really has I feel just like yeah saturated with so much wisdom and I really enjoy being in your energy so thank you so much we there were many topics we didn’t even get to I wanted to
(53:53) ask you about money and so many things that are you know things that you’ve shared your perspective on so I encourage everyone to check out you know your offerings and head over to see what you’re up to next because I know you’re like me always on always on to some new tip and and that is the creative Arc right of feminine it’s so Dynamic and ceaselessly captivating and you embody that so thank you so much for being here and for this com thank you love thank you for having me
