Is Blissful Birth A Choice?

(00:02) we have been duped by feminism sexual Liberation and anti-depressants we have been told that we are powerful and free now as women but we feel tired wired and bitter we’re mostly eating right exercising and meditating wrangling to-do lists and arranging playdates and yet there’s a haunting holess beneath the huge complaint what if I told you that there is a huge Storehouse a reservoir of energy inside of you that has not been tapped that you could feel light and pulsing excited and alive in ways that a wellness lifestyle

(00:49) cannot deliver that you could trust yourself that the world could feel safe and that unexpected and expected Delights could start to illuminate your path no coach therapist doctor or Guru required just you learning to get real present and attentive with you I feel like I’m here to matchmake your inner parts for the greatest love affair ever written I want to help you learn first where you’re buying eggs from the hardware store which is the source of all pain I want to help you master entering through the upset which is the

(01:27) only spiritual practice You’ll Ever Need and to get real comfortable putting on your villain Crown which is in my opinion the key to True power and then you’ll attune to your inner yes so you can live the life defined by the specific pleasure of who you are I am so excited to announce my latest book called The reclaimed woman which is available for pre-order now so if you head to the link in show notes you can learn more about bonuses events and companion offerings and I cannot wait to see your gorgeous face on the

(02:07) [Music] path I’m Dr Kelly Brogan you may know me as a New York Times bestselling author of a book with an exploding pill on the cover Renegade psychiatrist P dancer or honorary member of the disinformation doesn’t what can I say I’m a born provocator I’ve spent most of my recent life exposing deceptions connecting dots and discovering the secret places my inner victim is still waiting to be liberated and now I feel called to help you reclaim all of your parts your health your sexuality your power and your expression so that you can finally

(02:46) truly own yourself I want to ignite in you that inner knowing and the pulsing Vitality that lives beneath your disempowerment disconnection and resentment so that you can audaciously courageously and playfully alchemize your struggle into the specific pleasure of who you are this is Reclamation radio a soulfire production hello and welcome back to Reclamation radio I am Dr Kelly Brogan and I am beyond like actually like fangirling out Beyond excited to sit with my friend and discuss her new masterpiece of a book and and wherever

(03:31) that conversation takes us I’m here with Yolanda Norris Clark and I remember the first time that I saw her on the interwebs early early plandemic moments and there was this soul level recognition where not only did I feel like wow this woman is so familiar to me but it wasn’t just because of how much we have in common it was because of this you know restoration of the V the tribe the culture of resistance if you will and I know that you and I we talked yesterday about how we have been on very similar journeys of alchemizing a lot of

(04:11) the righteousness that was flowing through our respective systems let’s say in 2020 and prior into a very humble like humbling I should say selfawareness of our shadow Realms and tendencies and patterns of self disempowerment and that was one of the major I don’t know takeaways that I experienced from your book was how willing you are to share your experience of walking the walk and how much that does that vulnerability that authenticity does for so many other women you know to to feel validated in their very messy very weird and

(04:52) sometimes shared processes right so in my experience of your recent work and of course your you know your body of work but you know this recent moment is just your capacity to hold the truth with poetry and with Grace and that is not easy it’s not easy to do I’d almost rather not talk about the truth than be challenged with that task so I want to welcome you before I dive into what essentially I intend to be like a mini course on Portal on your your latest work so welcome Yanda oh my goodness thank you so so much it is such an honor

(05:32) to be here and I’m so humbled by that lovely introduction thank you it’s been such a such a journey and you’re right it does seem so familiar to watch you evolve and grow in a way that that seems very similar to my experience and I just feel increasingly grateful for St Rona what a gift that was in inviting us all to become well I feel like really I’m just growing up finally a little bit yeah that’s exactly the language that I use is is maturational and I you know I’m not no astrology expert however my South node

(06:15) is in Aries and so for me to lift my sword a loft it’s like taking a breath you know it’s it’s so easy and comfortable and I see that in you two and so to she said sword you know in the moments where it reflexively be lifted feels like the expansion the growth and that maturation and I’ve watched you do it and your work that I want to dive into is and I know this is just one of many many things you have bubbling in The Cauldron so you told me you have many works you know to contribute still however portal is through one lens a

(06:53) book about the choice that we have to experience birth period right like just experience it and when I told you when you know I was delivered my copy I sort of felt the resistance right like my kids are teenagers tweenagers and I’m really far away from the birth realm I’ve spoken on other podcasts about you know when I run my mouth about home birth you know I’ve had aerial photos of my home and death threats and I know how important this topic is and I also feel like I’ve said my piece like I made my point about how essential I believe it

(07:29) is for women to to get informed in time because there aren’t a lot of examples in life where you can seemingly of course there’s no mistakes right but you can seemingly miss an opportunity that’s like real big and this is this is one of them and so with some reluctance I guess like I sat down and and read this book and it was like a literal page Turner and what I got out of it is what I want to share with everyone and in fact I thought if I can record a conversation with this woman that I can share with my own daughters at the right time whether

(08:01) or not they you know ever turn the pages of the book they will get the transmission from you of what it is that they need to know to claim and lay claim to the Bliss that is available the god energy that is available and the personal expansion that is available through birth then I will feel I can rest because it’s it’s such an essential topic and it is the metaphor for all growth and all change so I want to start out I was joking with you yesterday that literally my book is like has a million this I’ve written more in this

(08:37) book than was written in it and tabs and all this stuff and I had to pair down the samples that I want to share I want to organize the information that I that I’d like to highlight Yanda in this way and I was mentioning this to you because this is how it came to me right that there is there’s a big old lie right at the heart of this matter right there’s a big lie and perhaps we incarnate to Delight in discovering the the truth right after we’ve bought into the LIE who knows but there is a lie there’s also a why to the LIE right then there’s

(09:14) the truth and then there is the way and you model that way 10 pregnancies and children later and so I I wanted to highlight some of what you contribute in this beautiful book in that way so how does that sound that’s great all right okay book report begins oh my God everyone busts me for how many book reports I love to write okay so I want to start off with two quotes and I’m gonna I’m G to jam together to set the stage because I haven’t heard anyone else talk about birth in the if you will truther realm as being one of the most important

(09:59) points of access that certain authorities have to our Consciousness and so reading these words I thought wow this is exactly the point I’ve been trying to make right so okay so you’re right industrial obstetric birth is the most dominant commandeering form of mind control that exists in society and due largely to its influence most of us see birth as something we have to battle or survive our societal belief beliefs about birth have been aggressively engineered to ensure that most of us are terrified enough of the

(10:35) process to willingly submit ourselves and our babies to the horrors and brutality of the industrial OB cetric system okay so you write that but then you write what I know but may never have the skill to properly articulate although here I’m giving it my all is that choice and surrender creation and dissolution birth and death are elliptical infinite Loops of energy and that electing choosing to move through the birth portal in Bliss is so much more than simply wanting to avoid pain you right the living body is the most

(11:12) sensitive and glorious conductor of energy in existence and the most potent interface with the Divine that to me is all there is to say we could end the entire conversation right here but what I want to highlight in those seemingly contrasting quotes is that there is controversy available right we have been deceived and we have most of us and I’d like to talk eventually about the Nuance of how even you having had so many natural births took a certain bait right about what birth is about and we are here I believe to end this controversy

(11:53) right to recognize that it has fueled so much struggle and suffering and that we have the opportunity now to put the controversy to rest so I want to start yand the conversation with sort of setting the stage for this concept of I learned the word a while ago recuperation right like how it is that you know because people who are listening to this conversation probably know about your work and my work and they probably have heard some of the details about like the problematic interventions how informed consent

(12:25) really isn’t available all these things I want to touch on that too however the more nefarious areas are those That masquerade right as women serving but perhaps are like wolves and sheep’s clothing so I learned this word recuperation and I know that it applies to Midwifery like how it has been captured and co-opted so you talk about how you feel that you know regulated midwives are controlled operatives basically and I’d love for you to just share a bit about your experience and how it is that you learned that

(13:01) Midwifery right where most women would go to express their intent to have a positive experience with their birth and this is where I want to make sure that we you know scream from the the rift Toops right like about how there might be more to the story so yeah I’d love to sort of start with your thoughts on Midwifery I know that some people think you are a midwife right or have some sense that like you you are involved in that system so yeah just what you’ve learned about Midwifery as a domain yeah well I was pregnant for the

(13:40) first time when I was 19 years old uh and I lived in BC British Columbia Canada at the time and I knew that I wanted a natural birth I knew that I wanted to give birth at home I knew that I would give birth at home that was not even in question and I talk a little bit in Portal about my mother and her experience giving birth to me I had a very traumatic industrialized Hospital birth and I was separated from my mother for the first several hours of my life which are you know really crucial moments in a human being’s life

(14:15) experience but one of the gifts my mother gave me was that she was very self-aware and there was never a time that I remember hearing my birth story for the first time I just grew up with the story part of my consciousness and she never had any delusions about the fact that everything that was done to her and me was completely unnecessary and abusive and that was such an enormous gift and I grew up with this Fascination about birth and my own story and stories in general and birth in general and so when I became pregnant as

(14:49) a very young woman which I realize now actually you know I was sort of destined for this intellectual life I was always the smartest kid in my class and you know very high achieving at school and so my big rebellion was to get pregnant which that’s another story altogether but I totally embraced it and it was really my experience of pregnancy was so wonderful and I I also had received from my mother this very interesting message that it actually is very possible to have a full intellectual life and that motherhood is part of that which is a

(15:27) bit of a unique perspective in this world but anyway I knew I would have a home birth and at that time in British Columbia mid wirey had just become regulated and licensed which in my innocence I was so excited about because this meant I could have a midwife for free because in Canada so-called healthc Care Medical Care pharmaceutical care is socialized so we all have the immense benefit of the benevolent government giving us all access to everything that the alpath industrial medical system provides Kelly and this included

(16:10) Midwifery and so isn’t this great isn’t this wonderful I was very innocent and I thought this was just fantastic and so I had my first meeting with my regulated Midwife and in that very first encounter I something just wasn’t quite right uh she suggested procedures and forms of testing and Diagnostics that to my mind had nothing to do with this beautiful holistic birth experience I envisioned for myself and my baby and after three meetings with her I asked if I could please read her copy of the British Columbia Midwifery act which was this

(16:51) enormous binder full of legal terminology and I took this she gave it to me which was lovely of her and I took at home and I read it cover to cover and I just there was absolutely no question that I would sever my relationship with her and that was one of many many stages in my in my Awakening to the politics of politics of Midwifery specifically but also just the way that the overall medical system works and and it’s fundamentally coercive manipulative nature and what I’ve come to realize is that and we hear this a lot in the birth

(17:28) World actually you like Birth Midwifery is it’s broken and the system is really broken and we need to try to we need to try to rectify it we need try to fix the system and you know we could take this approach and that approach and you know all these ideas about how we can fix the system but what a lot of people have a very difficult time realizing is that these systems were never broken the medical system was never broken from its very Inception it was designed to create fra and Trauma and dissociation and alienation and obstetrics is one of the

(18:06) core elements of the industrial obstetric system and its purpose is to abuse and traumatize and to instill in both mothers and babies a deep psychological dependency on the larger forms of medicine that are also connected with Academia and everything else right right and Midwifery is as most people understand it now is absolutely a part of that whole system so around 50 years ago in North America and Europe and this has happened all over the world because of course the industrial medical system is one of the

(18:51) foremost Colonial exports all over the planet right and West so-called Western medicine has been spread around this entire planet and about 50 years ago the state began its appropriation of not only the term Midwifery but also the practice of Midwifery so the word Midwife has been appropriated by States all over the world country governments all over the world and what they’ve done is they’ve contorted the meaning of Midwifery so that Midwifery has come to be simply a reflection of industrial obstetrics and most people who call themselves

(19:38) midwives have been trained within the industrial medical system according to its principles have been taught its fundamental practices and Export those practices into women’s homes in many cases but but also a lot of midwives don’t even do home birth so it’s a very kind of convoluted situation it’s it’s difficult thing to talk about because on one hand because of this appropriation a lot of people now actually think of a kind of Professional Medical Practice when they think of the term Midwifery more and more the idea of

(20:15) Midwifery as kind of part of medicine as a very you know safe and professional branch of medicine has become very normalized and then there’s also still a considerable number of of women and people who think of mid wirey as a very holistic kind of touchy feely Hands-On like beautiful relational practice that’s very Grassroots and and very natural and a lot of women enter into relationships with midwives who have been trained in this industrial system believing that that what they’re going to receive is a very Hands-On but also

(20:52) hands off kind of holistic approach to birth and there’s a kind of bait and switch that happens so often so I’ve spent years working one-on-one with women who have experienced significant birth trauma and I would say that in many cases the most entrenched forms of birth trauma occur at the hands of very well-meaning midwives who have actually been trained to sabotage birth and trained to abuse women but they are so embedded in this medicalized perspective that they actually have no recognition that that’s what they’re doing and it creates a

(21:35) whole culture of deep deep confusion because in many cases women come out of these experiences without even having the language or the awareness themselves to fully recognize at first that what they have just lived through is profound abuse and it it often takes months and and years for women to be able to see that what they experience was abusive so anyway it’s just it’s a whole convoluted system but you know the thing that I’m that I’m realizing more and more Kelly is that I’m no longer convinced that in general we romanticize the idea of

(22:13) Midwifery so there’s this even among those who are fairly aware of the distorted politics of Obstetrics and and the politics of Midwifery as they exist now tend to have this very romantic notion that in years past you know maybe a hundred years ago or 200 years ago Midwifery used to be this lovely wonderful thing where midwives treated women well and they respected birth and you know birth was revered and and supported the way that it should be and actually I don’t even necessarily think that that’s true and I am more and more

(22:54) of the opinion actually that Midwifery had a lot to do with the shaping of industrial medicine and Industrial obstetrics I think that in most of recent history recorded history certainly you know when I read primary documents that discuss Midwifery practice in the Middle Ages or Midwifery practice you know at the turn of the century certainly there’s very little evidence to my mind that midwives haven’t almost always been in the business of sabotaging birth and and what I’m getting to is that the lie as I see it has been ongoing for much longer

(23:36) than we believe but I also know and I know this from my own embodied experience of blissful ecstatic birth I also know that there was a time that I think has been obscured from human history from recorded history I know that there was a time possibly not too long ago when we did have a collective of understanding of birth as utterly spontaneous and totally easeful and without any need for surveillance or monitoring or assessment or interference of any kind and what we see in these recorded documents of of even ancient

(24:18) forms of Midwifery is that Midwifery has always been part of the shaping of culture so we birth as we live and birth is an expression of values and our belief systems birth is an expression of culture but birth is also a site whereby culture is imposed upon this new generation of human being and we’re all part of this co-creation of what we call society and culture and I think the history of birth is much much more hidden but also more available to us through embodied experience that we’ve been led to believe so that was a huge

(25:01) rambling somewhat answer no I love it I love it and while you were describing it first of all I was thinking a lot about Waldorf education you know that there are these dimensions in different systems that are you know presenting themselves as truly alternative with this like romantic right that’s a very essential element especially when we’re dealing with the capture of women in society this romantic feeling like a sweet special feeling and you know it’s like that quote that those most enslaved are those who imagine they’re free right

(25:36) so it’s it’s it’s that you imagine that entering into this Dimension you are serving your Liberation let’s say your emancipation from the system and in fact perhaps as you’re saying it’s even more extreme of a capture and and I was also feeling like you know the just like me as a prescribing psychiatrist to pregnant and and breastfeeding women you know the providers the clinicians are they resonate with that particular trauma field or they wouldn’t be practitioners right so like just like my own patients I was available you know to

(26:12) connect to that trauma field I represented it it’s not like I was some villainous purveyor like right I in so many ways like at the level of practitioner the capture starts right so and then you’re just you know swirling around in this field that requires dependency right requires fear to drive people and towards these outcomes that then they imagine the same system will rescue them from so that whole Stockholm thing yeah I’d love to talk a bit about the stories because you mentioned you know the power of stories and I think

(26:48) all of the time about if I had just heard a story right because I was so in the you know in the alpath world but if I had just heard of story of somebody who had a home birth right like your first story I never met anybody who had had a home birth period let alone like at their first birth and because I didn’t hear that story you know I chose like a birthing center which will get into the importance of set and setting and what it says about what you’re electing into in terms of Consciousness and options and the narrative that

(27:23) you’re subscribing to but you talk about how there’s no risk-free option right because that’s what drives a lot of let’s let’s talk about first time moms there’s no risk-free option and so a lot of women might think oh well having a midwife especially a licensed one means that I am mitigating risk and I’m still preserving you know my potential to have a natural birth but there are these narratives that are spun and you might know someone right who is is going to influence you greatly when it comes to how you begin to conceive of your

(27:54) choices and your options however there is this thing called confirmation bias right which is like how we tell the story of what happened the horror story or the Triumph and you have a fantastic couple of paragraphs that I I won’t read Because I’ll just ask you but I just your writing is so spectacular where you talk about how you know there are these different sort of flavors of confirmation bias whether you choose the hospital or whether you don’t whether something horrible happens or whether it doesn’t and so I’d love for you to flush

(28:24) that out a bit just so we can understand the Nuance that goes into these stories that form the fabric of culture around Earth that influences us yeah you know story really is just kind of everything like literally everything and I don’t think there is any option to step outside of confirmation bias I think confirmation bias is also everything there is no option outside of that and I’m very happy to acknowledge that I am continuously devoted to affirming my bias towards freedom and ease and the wisdom of my body and yeah I don’t have

(29:09) any problem with that so that’s been a funny kind of accusation that’s been leveling towards me in the past like well she’s just all about confirming her bi well yes of course I’m all about confirming my biases my biases are so powerful and if you would prefer to confirm your bias that you are weak and helpless and that you have no choice and that you have to submit to these authorities and that there’s no safer path than to go and give birth in an institution under heavy technological surveillance you’re absolutely free to

(29:43) do that but this idea that following mcla Authority represents the unbiased path that’s ludicrous to me and so I I just don’t I can’t even really be in conversation with someone someone who is I I I’ll talk to anyone but yes you’re right I’m confirming my biases and my story is that I am incredibly powerful and that my body is functioning perfectly so what could be better than that I mean I just I don’t see that the alternative is more interesting or or more fruitful or that the result is anything that I’m interested in and it’s

(30:22) true there is no risk-free option and this is something that people feel very uncomfortable with but death is a part of life and babies do sometimes die and that happens in the hospital and it happens at home and it happens in every context and that’s one thing but the other aspect of this Kelly is that you know I’m I’m pregnant right now with with my 10th baby and actually I realized recently that this is my 14th or 15th pregnancy so I have experienced losses over the course of my mothering journey and I’m not even remotely

(30:58) concerned about anything I I don’t think about the possibility of death very often although I’m I’m very aware that it’s ever present as I said but the thing is I also believe and know that in choosing to give birth as far away from the industrial obstetric system as possible I am also optimizing the likelihood that that my baby will be born well and healthy and safely so it’s not just that I’m comfortable with risk it’s that I also have carry an objective belief that my body does work so well and that all of the elements that

(31:49) constitute industrial birth are actually far more dangerous and risky than simply allowing the process of life to unfold and and that’s another aspect of what I see as the lie that we’re that we’re we’re presented with I truly don’t think that the practices and procedures that are inflicted on on mothers and babies have any logic whatsoever they’re almost entirely absurd and counterproductive and I think the result that we see in the world of industrial birth the unbelievably High rates of surgical birth the number of women whose birth

(32:34) processes are augmented or induced using pharmaceutical drugs to me that’s very clear evidence that this approach is not conducive to flourishing right but if we’re looking at these systems from the perspective of logic they don’t make sense and this is where this narrative that you know the system is really broken and we should try to do something to fix it really comes from but if you are able to wrap your mind around the fact that it’s designed this way it’s designed to produce this outcome it’s designed to create trauma it’s designed

(33:11) to create dependency then it does make a lot more sense so yeah I mean I stay away from the system because I’m comfortable with the process of life but also because I want my babies to be healthy and I and I want to be healthy I had a funny encounter with a personal trainer the other day who I showed up for this session and he was wearing a mask and he said oh I’m don’t worry you don’t need to I don’t need you to wear a mask I just had a a hernia operation and so you know I wanted and I sort of said oh oh well okay and then he asked me to

(33:43) fill out 16 forms and one of them was about all the information that he wanted from my doctor and I just wrote no no no no no because I don’t have a doctor and I haven’t seen a doctor in over 25 years and I handed it to him and he remarked on the the blankness on the doctor Page and I I said you know I haven’t I’m so sorry I don’t have any information for you I haven’t seen a doctor in 25 years and he was just shocked and then I said well that’s probably why I’m I’m so healthy and anyway the session was a little bit weird course as a result but

(34:13) but yeah no I just don’t have anything to do with it and it’s the Open Secret Kelly is that Earth just works so well and it’s so straightforward and it’s so simple and it doesn’t require any of this stuff in fact all of the stuff that we project onto birth and apply to the birth process and all the things that we do to women while they’re pregnant it really is not only unnecessary but but highly counterproductive if what you’re going for is Optimal Health and well-being right and this is where you expose in a way that is very delightful

(34:51) to me that we may not always be going for that even if we say that we are right and so it it’s your relationship to the fears and and we’ll talk later about like your recommendations for how women work with fear fear of judgment their own fear that arises inside that this is key as a key aspect to self-possession right and to the maturation right into adulthood and sovereignty from this trauma and wound based place but you know you talk about how your desires your deep desires are exposed through the choices that you

(35:31) imagine you don’t have a choice about right so let’s say you’re at home and things start to get scary and you interpret how things are getting scary to be you know that it’s time to go to the hospital you go to the hospital and you have all of these interventions and then you might develop the narrative thank God I made the right choice to go to the hospital right and of course the reverse could happen where you you you know really want the home birth and then something happens you get to the hospital and you feel like it was

(36:00) sabotaged by that so so all of these unconscious relationships to authority figures to parentified you know Dynamics get exposed and I think what you you make an effort to clarify is that we we may say we want a thing but we’re still very much in obedience allegiance to the system we still want to work something out there and so we don’t actually necessarily want to have the birth that we we say we want and I think one of the ways you you brought up that we can see that is our relationship to interventions right so you you talk

(36:40) about how you know you opted out of all sorts of testing GPS and ultrasound and even I think pregnancy testing right like all of it right you just don’t participate screenings and that must mean that you have aligned right your desire to as you say experience the wisdom of your body with your behaviors and choices however there are lots and lots of us myself included you know for some of those interventions at the time that said I wanted to experience the power and beauty of my body and the potential of birth and then you know got

(37:20) an ultrasound or whatever and so that Schism it shows you something right like what what do you think it’s showing right like what do you think think is driving this sort of split allegiance that we have to ourselves and to the system when we are attempting to have a natural birth but still recruiting the interventions as we said maybe even some of the clinicians that are at odds with that yeah I mean we see this all the time and no one is exempt either you know I don’t live this sort of Pure Life where there’s no in conflict with myself but I

(37:54) do find it really interesting to see myself I want that in my life and I think what that kind of conflict really indicates is that we are still in a state of trust with the system I mean I don’t think it’s really necessarily anything that much more complicated than that really you know there’s lots of Dynamics involved and what I think a lot of women are looking for what the true desire that many women have is the story that they tried so hard for a home birth but that they really needed to be saved by their doctor their obser their

(38:35) Midwife you know they they actually are very delighted by having a dramatic fear savior drama story that fulfills some kind of inner desire and there’s nothing wrong with that there’s nothing wrong with that there really isn’t but I think we really have as a collective and and as individual women and as humans we have very much been we have been captured by this system and I don’t believe that the alpath medical structure has anything to offer me and when people willingly enter into that system what they’re expressing is that

(39:24) they do believe that the system can save them can heal them is something that they want and need and there’s no value judgment attached there’s nothing there’s no hierarchy of value in in any of that and I think there is a perception that that someone like me or women who make choices that are similar to mine or women who choose free birth that we’re just like trying to make a statement we’re just reacting against something and that was true for me at a certain point in my life life much earlier on in my journey but through

(40:01) that state of reactivity and resistance and and rage I mean I was enraged with what I saw as the injustices of the system and I don’t really see it as an injustice anymore I really see it as this is the game it’s just nature yeah it’s nature and it’s also culture and we do absolutely get to choose and that’s the PowerPoint and I think the first step towards freedom of whatever in whatever iteration for anyone is to recognize that we always have the option to choose and that in our choices we reveal our values we reveal our

(40:41) allegiances we show who we trust and how we trust and I I find that really interesting actually it’s it’s really more an exploration of who we are than anything right and I don’t I just don’t have any allegiance to it’s actually doesn’t even really exist for me and people ask me frequently you know what if your baby was born with a developmental distinction or what if your baby were to die and yeah what if it’s yeah right it’s only when you’re invested and inculturated around blame right that that’s even a relevant

(41:20) question right because essentially the subtext to that inquiry is whose fault is it right is it your fault because when you run to the arms of the system and certainly negative and adverse outcomes arise from that system and you and I would certainly argue in Greater proportion than they do at home it’s not your fault right and when we have this incapacity as women to hold pain we shift into guilt right so that we can blame either ourselves or somebody else and so much of what we’re talking about is is like how I call it wearing the

(41:59) villain Crown right like how can you get to this place where you can experience others seeing you as having done something bad and wrong and to be that self- Allegient that you know everything that has occurred has occurred for a reason and what I think is so powerful about what you have written and shared is that you know even one test even one point of contact is already engaging A system that is very difficult psychos spiritually to disengage from so you’ve already declared maybe to yourself that’s the only declaration that matters you know

(42:39) what’s going on here for you right like who are you choosing to trust are you choosing to trust you know Divine Design you know the order God whatever it is yourself your body whatever it is that you want to infuse that Faith with or do you imagine that there is something to be gained through this triangulation really against your own process with the system and like you said it’s not a meritocracy right it’s just a different ways to meet needs and I think why we’re having this conversation is because sometimes when you encounter the truth

(43:15) in the right timing it can just jolt you out of like the somnolence right like it’s like the narcotics starts to wear off and you can be emboldened you know by women like you and certainly I’ve had home home birth you know who’ve done it see that it’s possible and say I want that too that’s all right because otherwise it’s it is sort of how it is me you know it’s just sort of like however this unfolds for you is exactly how it you know it should but I as somebody who has really gotten behind informed consent for a lot of my you

(43:49) know blowing the whistle years you make the point that you don’t you think it’s a moot point right like informed consent because the sent is entering the system period going for the test going for the induction right like I know somebody who was interested in a natural birth and presented to the hospital right with like you know I don’t know an hour of perral symptoms and ended up you know with a C-section and that is perhaps because that is not the setting in which a natural birth is likely to occur and you consented right to that eventuality

(44:29) not even potentiality at the moment you engage the system right so how do we get clear and organized in our intentions our energies and get real about what it is that we we want and I know that you know one thing I want to speak about is just the truth about like the dangers right because I think this conversation gets muddied early on for women who feel like home birth could be attractive let alone free birth and they just are like unable to imagine tolerating exactly what you just said which is the inquiry

(45:03) around an adverse outcome you know posited by somebody in their life like that’s like intolerable for them but you write here and I will quote you say I’ve only been involved in a handful of planned home births that have led to a hospital transfer and almost all of those transfers occurred as a result of the mother’s fear and exhaustion not pathology or tragedy on the other hand I have seen many situations during home births that I’m confident would have been described as emergencies and treated as such had the

(45:36) mother given birth in an industrialized hospital setting these circumstances include the presence of meconium births that stretched over several days babies that took many hours to emerge including over 10 hours of pushing excessive bleeding immediately postpartum broken umbilical cords and babies who were born initially unresponsive and more all which were handled calmly and efficiently at home with positive outcomes and no medical involvement so here’s where the narrative comes in right and that confirmation bias yeah I mean I think if

(46:12) you didn’t know that right like what I just quoted if you didn’t know that that was possible for these seemingly horrible things to actually spontaneously resolve and for these seemingly horrible things to be a reason to transfer into the system with then negative outcomes then you could just oversimplify things and reduce right the risk stratification to this like very simple metric of like if things go weird I better be able to get to a hospital but how are we defining risk and I think I’d love for you to talk a little bit

(46:46) about like how you Orient towards things that look different than we’ve been conditioned to imagine is the right way for them to look like let’s say an initially unresponsive baby right there is an orientation that we can have right because it’s not negligence and it’s not dismissing it and it’s not being like you know sort of lack about things it comes from a different place to orient to an unresponsive baby with like a space holding right versus like a scream and a get him in the you know the ambulance so how do you did you arrive at that like

(47:21) what what was the process of cultivating that within yourself because I think that that modeling that for other women it’s just a powerful gift yeah this really comes down to this whole idea that our entire cultural perspective of birth Kelly is very very distorted and very very narrow so in my experience the spectrum of what can constitute a a very normal healthy situation is far far more vast than what we have been entrained to believe and that narrowing of of our understanding of what is possible or allowable or or safe or reasonable

(48:03) during birth is part of how we’ve created this situation where even our understanding of I mean you you know this probably better than so many people given your experience in the medical system but I mean statistics are so skewed because we’re creating emergency situations by Design and yes I I I’ve seen all sort of things in homeor situations that I I absolutely know would have been catastrophized within the system because again that’s the purpose of the system they’re constantly looking for justifications for applying

(48:41) all of these emergency measures that then escalate things and that birth becomes one of a million that goes into the category of you know requiring resuscitation or requiring this or that procedure and that’s not to minimize the fact that sometimes babies die but I don’t see birth in the same way as most people at all and I get a lot of lack for it as well which I’m totally fine with because what I also see in my work teaching what I call authentic Midwifery or radical birth keeping and yes you mentioned before that I used to call

(49:21) myself a midwife but that shifted when legal restrictions were put in place where I lived and so I started to then call myself a birth witness and you know there’s just this interesting dance around nomenclature and an effort to of navigate the world in this space where language is so controlled and managed and appropriated and it’s all very complicated but yeah I mean the whole risk conversation is is such a fascinating one because again what the system presents is this perspective that they hold they as in the medical

(49:59) industrial complex carries a monopoly on how risk and safety are defined and anything outside of that narrow framework is negligent irresponsible yeah it’s terrible and my belief my knowing is that risk and safety are entirely subjective Concepts that can only be rightfully defined by an individual according to our deepest held values and beliefs and that that will look different for different people and this does come down to a lot of it is I’ve worked with so many women over the years and whenever I’m discussing

(50:43) fear with mothers and the fears that they carry around they’re often what seems to be a conflicting desire on one hand to experience birth as it can be and to birth outside the system and to claim their right to give birth in peace and power and full sovereignty and then this fear of whatever it may be and often what comes up when we’re exploring fears first is well what if my baby dies what if something goes wrong what if it’s all of those sort of nebulous wh ifs and the fear of death is is a big one but what’s under that for almost

(51:26) every woman that I’ve ever worked with is actually not so much the fear of their baby dying which of course no mother wants I mean that’s that should be obvious I don’t feel like I need to yeah what’s actually underneath that fear is the fear of judgment and social sanction and social death the fear of being cast out of the clan of being rejected of being seen as a bad mother a bad woman and the fear of total ostracization really and when we can actually acknowledge that then that actually creates an opening for

(52:04) exploring who we really think we are and for me I have actually gone through so much so much Social rejection over the years and it’s been wonderful it’s been wonderful and it’s been very cleansing and very healing and you know St Rona was a big part of that and I know you can relate to that experience too I had a essentially what was a total turnover in my social group but I also realized that I was well prepared for that experience through my experiences in motherhood outside the system and making choices that are quite traditional

(52:43) actually but seen as unconventional and I think what is confronting for a lot of people is that I’m not afraid of judgment and I’m not afraid of what people think of me and I’m not afraid of the worst case scenario which again for a lot of people is like total rejection and of course I don’t want my babies to die and again that’s why I make the choices that I do but I’m also at peace with any outcome and the reason that I’m at peace with any outcome is because I know exactly who I am and I know exactly what I stand

(53:23) for and I know that in this realm I’m making all of my decisions rooted in the deepest truth of love and it’s really kind of as simple as that for the most part amen so you might know that my Flagship program vital mind reset does not involve any supplements and while I took fistfuls of supplements for many years during my healing journey I actually don’t really do well with them and I don’t take them regularly I manage to have a lot of unintended effects when I take supplements and that’s why I have become a huge believer in energetic

(54:07) remedies and specifically in flower remedies my home is adorned with so many Lotus way products that I have enjoyed over the years inspired by my girlfriend Katie Hess who is the founder and these remedies which are specific to your Soul’s unexpressed desire to what it is that is wanted from you in terms of expression in this moment in your life they are such a gentle and Powerful it’s a very feminine medicine way to bring you into the level of Health the level of personal empowerment and the level of creativity that you’re

(54:51) ready for and the best way to enter into this world is to Simply take their quiz which requires that you look at a bunch of beautiful flowers and decide which one is the most attractive to you and that’s the point of entry and pretty soon your whole house like mine is going to be filled with delicious Mists and anointing oils and flour Elixir that you can put in your daily water or your tea and it’s just an extraordinary way to align that I think is really much more loving so sometimes then supplements can be so the link is in show notes and

(55:31) remember to use my discount code Kelly 15 for 15% off I think when we get hyperfocused for the reasons you just described on the outcome of you know 10 fingers 10 toes healthy baby born right for me the most triggering thing is well you know it’s fine because you know the baby’s healthy right and meanwhile the mother has been like absolutely decimated and shot through by this experience and how we deprioritize the process the journey and the opportunity because of the focus on these outcomes that are observable to

(56:11) other people and what is certainly less observable is a mother’s inner landscape woman’s inner landscape when it comes to the many many decisions that weave together the quilt of her you know birth Journey so you say that birth is the foremost experience of power available totally agree with that and that this is why its management is essential for those who might seek to you know control a populace and you talk about how even postpartum depression is at times you know a very natural response to obstetrical rape right

(56:55) assault and what you describe as a humiliation ritual so when we are right not appreciating not able to see even that this may be what’s actually at work and we focus instead on these measurable outcomes we also forsake the opportunity that we have to connect to God through birth so this is sort of like the why section right like why would they do all this and not to who knows whether it’s architected intentional whether you know the Illuminati are sitting behind the curtain dreaming all this up it doesn’t matter but there is an agenda for sure

(57:38) and the operatives is a pyramid scheme so right the operatives are largely unaware of the agenda but this is like a big big goal right that to interfere with this initiation ritual in a woman’s life capture it and invert it in such a dark way but then to achieve the interference with her opportunity perhaps in this lifetime to make contact with the divine right so what would you say right knowing all this to those who might argue all that matters is a healthy baby yeah I mean that’s just such a sad thing isn’t it because a baby can’t

(58:21) possibly be healthy if their mother is promis ized and devastated and dealing with the aftermath of sexualized abuse and psychological abuse I mean I see industrialized birth including the voyerism of them all and it’s just so evident in the way that our society dysfunctions in all the ways and yes this idea I mean this perspective is starting to shift I’m seeing so much more awareness about all of this everywhere which is very very heartening and hopeful and I I do feel like portal my book is now in existence at exactly

(59:10) the right time in history I think women are ready for it because I think there is a growing awareness about all of this but yeah the idea that postpartum depression is just a sort of natural result of motherhood has been very much promoted in our society for quite a long time and you know it was called the baby blues when my mom was a mother but it’s a completely understandable response to obstetric rape absolutely and it’s not necessary but it’s very understandable it’s very very logical that would be the the result and yeah Birth really is the

(59:53) foremost portal to God as I see it that we have available to us and I do think that the why as bombastic as this might sound I do think the why is the purposeful fracture of ourselves from our connection with our mothers and Earth Mother and all of humanity and all of existence and and God I do think that what’s at the heart of industrial birth is a kind of satanic gesture now I don’t use that term lit I think that it’s a kind of battle between dark and light but also that battle exists within each of us and we can at any point at any

(1:00:36) moment in time step outside of that Dynamic of conflict and resistance actually and that’s really what’s at the heart of my book it’s such a simple thing to disavow that Dynamic entirely and it really can all be so easy birth can be so easy and motherhood can be so easy and that’s another aspect of the why as well I think you know what I see in my larger community of mothers are women who who have such a hard time being in relationship with their babies and their children and who are unconsciously and unwittingly

(1:01:16) cultivating so much conflict within their lives and choosing so much conflict and drama in their lives and birth is the foundation of all of it Earth is the foundation of Our Lives it’s so very obvious and yet you know it eludes so many of us and and I do understand why and we are carrying layers of trauma but again none of this has to be as complicated as we tend to make it and my experience of motherhood of course I have irritations and I get mad at my kids and I you know all of the normal stuff but overall my experience

(1:01:53) of motherhood is that it really is the greatest privilege and the greatest source of spiritual inspiration and I adore my children and we have so much fun and they’re so interesting and the babyhood and toddler stages are just glorious and it that is the fundamental purpose of our existence is to experience life in this human form as the potential for joy and Delight yeah it doesn’t have to be it doesn’t have to be so hard and we really make things so hard for ourselves and yeah and there’s a purpose in all of it but the greater

(1:02:32) purpose is is connection and total love and a deep connection with God and motherhood and birth and our relationship with our babies is the path to that connection with God and I also want to say and I I really feel like this is important to state for anyone who’s listening who’s experienced birth trauma or who is pasted their mothering Journey and who may feel regret or guilt or shame we absolutely can heal from anything and the realizations that we as mothers have about our experiences both dark and light I think we have an

(1:03:10) opportunity to to pass our knowledge and understanding on to our children even through the ways that we feel that we might have done things differently or we we hope that our children might do things differently so there’s always yeah so yeah I like fail to off that caveat mostly because I’m so by necessity self- indoctrinated into the belief that you can’t be superior over your past shitty stupid unawakened self right like even reading your book and and this is where I want to spend the rest of our time certainly was you know

(1:03:44) it awakened in me the awareness that there were experience I had two natural births and there were experiences that I did not have and may never have in this lifetime right and there were things I didn’t know fully and this and that and it’s also that was an exact reflection of my Persona where you never have and I think you said this like you don’t have the birth it’s not put on you right it’s an expression of who you are at that time and like I love that gal right like in her like process right and so I’m not

(1:04:18) a better version of me now than I was then I’m just in this dance in this exploration and you know I love how you link the discussion let’s say of sexuality sexual trauma and sexual pleasure how you weave that into this conversation I think is essential you know I’ve focused a lot of my last two years I’m not done yet on an exploration of the assault on Eros right and I refer to that as like vital force energy and it also can Encompass like sexual energy and I have a podcast I did with a quka on what happened to the manwoman dynamic

(1:04:57) when a man and I know you would agree with this right stands by his woman being raped you know by the system being penetrated being you know her his son being circumcised right this emasculation humiliation ritual extends to other you know family members and chiefly to the man and then their erotic connection dies on the vine and so the interference with a woman and her own Heros her own connection to her God energy this is I think very much by Design right it’s not just to make you a patient for life and enculturate you

(1:05:30) around fear it’s deeper than that so you say or wrote If I Could paraphrase right that if you didn’t have an orgasmic birth you didn’t choose it it’s like a confronting provocative perspective however you have had the kind of birth that I had right like I’m a bad [ __ ] I’m tough I can do this like watch me you’re never going to believe this story of 17 hours of active back labor you know that you’ve had that and then you have had the orgasmic birth that you didn’t actually think was available to a woman like you right so I

(1:06:11) would love for you to tell a bit of the tale of an orgasmic birth experience especially through the perspective of somebody who didn’t at times right at previous times recognize that this was a choice and thought that maybe it was like an emerging phenomenon you know from a particular kind of woman and now you’re at a very radical and I I love it I’m right there with you and I and I want to read a little bit about how you talk about choice but perspective on Choice such that it encompasses right whether or not you are available for a

(1:06:45) pleasurable version right or like a toil and trouble version of birth so I think it would be incredible to hear of it about like what the hell that was like for to first of all to make the shift but then which I know is really what the whole book is about but then to have that like what actually is it like is it like those 1970s documentaries like women just like with their beautiful long hair moaning you know from a different dimension or what actually is an orgasmic birth why does it matter and why is it something that anyone can

(1:07:19) choose oh my goodness yeah it you know really what my experience in birth has showed me is that I don’t have to be my P I am not my personality that I am part of all of existence that God is real that that God is available to all of us that love is everpresent and that we really truly do create our own reality which I know has become something of a slogan and it’s sort of a new thing that people roll their eyes at but my goodness it is absolutely true and I I did choose to have these melodramatic hardcore girl power birth experiences

(1:08:09) which as you just said Kelly were exactly perfectly right for me at the time and were and I love those births all of them equally they were perfect and they were a pure reflection of who I was and how I was and the that I was expressing but we are infinite and life is really a reflection of our Consciousness and I’ve I’ve received a lot of interesting feedback about this idea that we have the birth we choose and we birth as who we are and if we don’t have an orgasmic Blissful birth experience it’s because we didn’t choose

(1:08:51) that and it is a very confronting idea and people get very upset about that women get very upset about that or have in some cases and what I hear is well that’s not true for me how dare you say that and that wasn’t true for me I had no choice for this that or the other reason and there’s all kinds of special reasons that make us feel exceptional in our circumstances right and my response to that is then yes then of of course you’re right if you feel committed if you are committed to the notion that you are exceptional and that this is not

(1:09:34) available to you then that you make that true in the belief of it but I’m so sorry I can’t participate in that because it’s not true but it also can be true for you if that makes any sense at all so yeah I mean the experience of it did unfold and I I read about this in the book and it’s it it’s a little bit of a tricky thing for me to articulate in this moment but there were almost two streams of experience that I had and this is also part of what I learned in this orgasmic Blissful birth experience is that time

(1:10:10) maybe is linear but existence is not actually linear so thinking about this phenomenon and realizing that I created the Blissful birth through all of my past births and in the experience I have healed my former selves and my ancestry and my daughters have received so much from this experience and then I wrote this book and it exists as its own entity and now other people own it through the reading of it and the metabolization of what I’ve shared in it and it like we all exist everywhere but I think coming to that understanding of

(1:10:52) how profound we are as beings in this World actually requires and this is such a paradox that I’m still wrapping my mind around requires first a form of maturation and individuation and the capacity to hold robust boundaries in our individual lives and in the way that we know ourselves so the idea that I am part of the everything is a little bit devoid it doesn’t really work or we can’t really quite be that until we also simultaneously know ourselves and own ourselves and are willing to claim true self- responsibility yeah it’s there’s there’s

(1:11:43) a lot in all of it but I’ve had and this is I think in a way somewhat an answer to your question of what is it really like to experience Blissful birth I’ve had quite a few people ask me with not not antagonism and not judgment but a little genuine curiosity actually and maybe a little touch of challenge so you’re pregnant now Yolanda do you think you’ll be able to do it again and I think that’s actually such a sweet and almost funny question and I did stop for a moment ago oh I wonder if I can do and then right away there’s

(1:12:22) this sort of sense of it’s already done it’s not even that it’s not even something to do I am pure possibility as is every woman every person every human and we are created to experience Bliss and we are created with the power of constant self-healing and constant regeneration and we’re created with the power of pure surrender and the discipline of surrender that we always have access to so that question can’t even really exist for me yes I was in a completely Transcendent state of total Bliss and that choice to experience

(1:13:05) birth as total Bliss was one of the most intensive experiences of genuine discipline of my life and I see surrender as a discipline and in a way Joy is a discipline and ease is a discipline and it’s a discipline because we have the option to choose that or the other and I mean I choose the other all the time drama and Ridiculousness and making things difficult for myself so you know I’m just I’m human but but it was it’s just so fascinating to me to really know that we can always choose our response and in many ways we can

(1:13:43) always choose the experience we have of whatever event transpires in our lives and to an extent we choose the events of our lives too anyway it’s a lot so you give a list of some of these choices which I find to be like a really helpful examples right because you are talking about in the moment right let’s say experiences of the sensations associated with birth and you are making choices in that moment you are recruiting the witness Consciousness the awareness to recognize there is a choice and then to make it that’s what I think you’re

(1:14:21) referring to right as discipline so you say for example what if I were to decide that this birth is going to be sheer pleasure in its entirety what if I simply choose not to resist any part of it what if I choose to allow myself to feel every single fragment of what is happening in my body what if I were to choose to open fully what if I were to choose to open every single portal that I have access to and what if the portals I have access to are infinite what if I choose to know I am everything and what if this baby is me and I am he and we

(1:14:54) are meant to be here doing this together and what if it can be all utterly boundlessly sweet what if I could simply choose to open my throat portal my mouth portal the portals of my pelvis and Yoni heart and mind and now I do you’re right so recognizing these choices especially in the moments where fear is arising because you describe a couple of instances in the book where you saw that fork in the road open up before you and you could have you know taken the familiar passage into orienting towards fear as like a Battle Ground let’s say

(1:15:33) right to even transcend I mean I even think that language right like to power over to win against versus just opting to take this totally different path and you give an example which I loved you said you know if there are moments this was actually about a fascinating story about kidney stones that I hope that wasn’t a spoiler alert anyway but you know you describe this pain right and that there are moments between pain which I’ve actually come to that same realization that pain is not a consistent thing there are moments

(1:16:03) between it its waves let’s say and that in those moments you can either feel sorry for yourself right or you can rest and experience gratitude right like but most of us don’t imagine and you and I in moments as well that there is the availability of that choice so it sounds like you know precious right like it sounds like yeah yeah yeah of course like on some meta level there is choice but I think you would agree that once you know there’s a choice there’s a choice right yes yes the experience of recognizing the offering of choice in

(1:16:43) every moment through birth and through my experience of kidney stones as well and and other portals that have involved pain and this this is one other aspect of my my life overall and my experience growing up with my mother who never took us to doctors and when we experienced any kind of childhood ailment or pain we were told to allow it to pass and go have a nap and eat an orange and you’ll be fine which sounds very harsh and I know people would have thoughts about that but I’m so grateful for that but anyway my yes recognizing that we have

(1:17:21) these very discreet Choice points in every experience of life during birth which we often sort of cover up with drama I mean drama is a way to mask the full experience of embodiment as well which in so many different ways in this life were discouraged from allowing to unfold and flourish I just don’t have any fear about I don’t have any fear of pain anymore not I shouldn’t say not any I don’t seek pain out but I’m not afraid of pain and I’m not afraid of death and I think this is another one of those larger Concepts women who are unafraid

(1:18:05) of birth are unafraid of death because birth and Sex and Death are all on a Continuum you know the moment of sexual the Apex of sexual pleasure is a kind of death I mean latit in French orgasm is described as The Little Death and I think all of those experiences are actually one I mean birth is sex is death in a sense and there are so many cultural so many forms of distortion of of all of the states but the choice to fully experience intensity and to allow intensity to filter through our bodies fully in a state of gratitude for

(1:18:50) sensation itself is very very powerful and what my understanding of choice my the deepened understanding of choice that this orgasmic birth experience has given me is the realization that in every moment of potential intensity in my life including encounters with my amazing mother who I’m staying with right now including encounters with people who would otherwise enrage me on the internet you know all of these experiences of life where we’re being confronted with the sort of of the burden of the identity that we’ve

(1:19:27) created for ourselves can be we have the opportunity to choose to respond differently in those instances as well and it’s not really all that different from the process of transmuting pain or the process of experiencing birth as sheer pleasure but birth Sex and Death really are unique experiences in life and and I do think they’re all intense portals to connecting with God and why not I just find it so interesting I actually one of the big Revelations for me Kelly is that this really is a huge breakthrough joy and pleasure and

(1:20:11) fulfillment are actually so much more interesting than conflict and drama and Ridiculousness and that has taken me a little while to discover it feels like a discovery yeah when you think about it in terms of bodily sensation right the relationship between the sensations that we have when we’re in our dramas and dramas right like for me it’s like my you know my chest tightens and my heart races and I get this like hot flashes up my neck and you know there’s a lot of arousal there and how about I understand that I have

(1:20:48) the choice to you know also you know dance to incredible music and move my body around and get those same Sensations and more like this relationship to Choice you’ve described in such similar ways to the way I have requires an orientation towards our victim stories it requires an orientation towards the very very real pain you know struggle grief sense of experiences of Abandonment and rejection and betrayal that we have had and also relinquishing as you say and I do right like the deliciousness of carrying forward that victimhood Consciousness

(1:21:30) that victim Consciousness in the abdication of your responsibility and your choice I mean you can’t have it both ways right you can’t say po me it happened to me and then also feel empowered to have the things you want in life consciously right because if you’re still imagining that anything happened to you and that may be what you want to believe I mean whatever you want to believe right but for me the reason I believe that is because I want to feel powerful and I want to get what I want so that means that I have to believe

(1:22:02) that the [ __ ] that I didn’t want and the times I felt powerless were also created by me at least in part right co-created and I know you know I know that you agree I want to read another quote on the subject of choice and then I’m done with the book report I promise and I want to leave on a more practical note but I love this quote it’s towards the end of the book and you write many of us are subconsciously fearful that if we allow birth to be easy and Blissful we might then miss out on what we have all been conditioned to believe is the more

(1:22:34) impressive account of almost dying or of needing to be airlifted to an obstetric hospital or of our Midwife having to perform some medieval maneuver that saved the day but most of those stories are made up and I want to encourage you to explore the possibility that saving yourself getting out of your own way and allowing Bliss can be the most exciting and romantic Narrative of all which is essentially what you’re saying right like I mean that’s why I love the book right if this book was just about your eight challenging births that you live

(1:23:06) through like I do not need to read that book like I read this book because the subtitle is the art of choosing orgasmic pain-free Blissful birth I want to know about that right so and that’s where we are as women like I think our feminine is enough online that we are attracted to Beauty we are Ed to pleasure and we are magnetized to our native Essence which is to open you know our bodies and channel this Divine energy and that’s not like some trite New Age [ __ ] I mean I’m not interested in that and I don’t think you are either so these are

(1:23:40) real experiences that you had and know intimately and I would love to end with you know you have a lot of very powerful tips and Tools around how to interact with fear that extend of course Beyond you know the realm of birth and it you know there there are elements of it that remind me even actually of my training believe it or not like my allopathic training and how to orient towards anxiety in the cognitive behavioral realm and then you wo in right like all of this sort of resolution and alchemical orientation towards victim

(1:24:14) Consciousness when you talked about like types of fear and how to orient around it so I’d love for you to just talk a little bit about like what you’ve learned as far as what’s helpful you know for women for people to consider when they are confronted in the very moment right so not meta existential fears necessarily but like in the moment where the bait is set you it’s just so delicious looking you almost want to like Chomp it right like what do you recommend as far as how to interact with fear and the sensations that like arise

(1:24:45) in your body oh fear is it’s a big one um yeah I think there’s just exploring this idea that there are different kinds of fear is an important tool it’s been really important to me because there’s so many ways that fear is projected onto us and we live these very interestingly disembodied lives most of us at least to some extent right we’re interacting online a lot of our experiences of fear are I guess they are kind of existential in a sense Kelly but that’s only because they’re experienced in this very disembodied way so most of us are

(1:25:26) experiencing fear not as a visceral literal threat that we see and must respond to but rather as an abstract idea that is either projected or embedded or implanted or or what have you so I think just that understanding is very helpful and I recognize in my own life I spent years and years feeling a I mean I was a teenager who felt very afraid of sea levels Rising so I was like a kind of a longstanding low-level fear that I so my point is that we’re we’re all entrained to fear I mean fear itself is valorized in our culture so for me exploring fear

(1:26:10) from an intellectual perspective has actually been very helpful on the Practical level because I’m now able to see that okay this is we’re we’re not really in our natural element and that doesn’t have to be a problem but I think being aware of that is very helpful and that also relates to how I approach fear very practically in my life and I can say very honestly and I I don’t want this to come across as poly Anish at all but rather as an example of what’s available I think to all of us I’m not afraid of very much and I’m not afraid

(1:26:43) of very much not because I’m special but because I have practiced the process of differentiating between fears that are un Ward from reality versus honoring a fear that is visceral and real and immediate and that requires a response of one kind or another and when we’re able to go through that process of filtering out what’s real and what isn’t or relevant and not there’s not a lot that’s actually relevant as far as fear goes so you know I had a moment the other day where I almost had a car accident and I felt that visceral Rush

(1:27:26) of fear and my body responded and I pulled over and I allowed the fear to move through I allowed myself to feel it fully and then I was able to move on and so really that’s kind of it in a nutshell I think we explore what it is to allow ourselves to recognize what constitutes a fear that requires an immediate response that is rooted in our immediate survival versus a fear that actually has no relationship with what we are experiencing in our bodies or what our children are experiencing in their bodies and when we can make that

(1:28:03) intellectual decision or distinction we can then recognize that our thoughts are not who we are our thoughts are not our identity our thoughts don’t have to be our identity our thoughts can actually be treated with some tenderness and an understanding but they they’re kind of movable parts and we can put our thoughts over here I think there’s a real gift actually that human beings have in our ability to compartmentalize and a lot of us compartmentalize in Dysfunctional ways that don’t serve us but when it comes to fear that capacity

(1:28:39) to compartmentalized can actually be very useful and I have practiced that very consciously and actively in my life and as a practice it gets easier and easier and at the age of 42 pregnant with my 10th baby no interaction with with the medical system yeah not a lot really scares me and I think that that does come through in the way that I live I think that’s also why I can come on a podcast interview with the great Kelly Brogan and not be too terrified I think that’s also why I can write a book and get out of my own way when in the past I

(1:29:16) dealt with severe anxiety and impostor syndrome and like oh my I can’t and and procrastination and perfectionism and all of that nonsense and you know it’s it is nonsense but it’s also very real and I understand why people are crippled by those what are fundamentally fears right and unproductive yeah unproductive ones right so like you describe that there which I love that there’s this qualitative difference in terms of the sensations in the body between right like productive fear that demands response and I think you described it as

(1:29:53) like like a crystallin like almost like a lightning kind of like I remember it this like a sharp clear kind of a sensation in the body versus this like kind of like cloudy distributed right how do you feel it different like when it’s just sort of that churn of the old programs versus like no there’s a decision to be made here absolutely I mean that that really is that I think that that’s that’s such an important thing and I have come to recognize that distinction between yeah what just feels like a grinding repetitive recursive

(1:30:26) just kind of full like there’s a slow there’s a lethargy to unproductive fear that in my experience is very very different from the life or death this is a decision that has to be made there is a real crystalline Clarity to serviceable fear to productive fear to fear that is here to serve us because fear is are such an important it’s an important emotion it’s not something to dismiss and even those grinding repetitive anxiety based fears are offering us a message right it is a message it’s not that we completely

(1:31:03) ignore that I think what that message is often telling us is that there’s an imbalance perhaps in the way that we are living as well you know that there’s an opportunity for us to shift our habits and to yeah to move in a different direction overall and that’s also something that I’ve used a lot of my you know I’ve been in places where you know in situations of my life I’ve created versions of my life that don’t serve me and what I notice is that I then therefore experience far more of those kinds of churning anxiety Loops yeah

(1:31:38) that are not the symptom right like a symptom of the disconnection and yeah I’m so grateful for the real tagline you know of this work which is you know come home to God through your body and I think if there is you know a more important imperative at this moment I’m not sure what it is so I am just a huge deep bow you know to what it must have taken to really crystallize all of your experience and your wisdom and to share so vulnerably like in this in this text and in your work and I can’t wait to see what you have coming down the pike and I

(1:32:18) recommend this book to every human I mean I really think that it is is that essential because you know I get my panies in a bunch about all sorts of topics right and I’ve had lightning rod that I have placed on my own head about all sorts of provocative stuff you know from feminism to you know Farm out whatever but there’s just there’s nothing that gets me more than this right like it when it comes to birth it’s like I can I mean it’s like I I’m like chomping at the bit to fight about it right like I go I go quick Into The

(1:32:49) Rescuer into my own victim Consciousness like I’m so sure that I know what’s right it’s it’s like to the point where I sometimes will see a baby that I distantly you know I’m Loosely connected to with like a hospital [ __ ] Bonet on or whatever the hell those things are and I I my heart will slam closed like I can’t even appreciate baby so to be delivered from this realm of controversy right from the fixing Consciousness into the creative consciousness of like okay yes we acknowledge all that a lot of true thing to be done in the birth space

(1:33:23) and then how about we f this over here and I get to hear about you know your incredible birth experiences and in such narrative detail like you’re an incredible Storyteller and that is really where and how the transmission I think occurs in in this work and I wish you exactly what it is that you need to experience and can’t wait for you know the story of it because these stories are are how we you know remind each other so I’m I’m super grateful Yolanda and um I know that you also have like a companion program for women who want to

(1:33:59) dive deeper and so if you want to share a bit about that and we’ll make sure to have all the resources available amazing thank you so so much Kelly for the opportunity to talk with you and I just want to mention briefly this was too funny to me my mom is one of my biggest my biggest supporter I adore my mom and she made me who I am and I gave her the first edition of the book to read of course and I didn’t hear from her for about a week and then I I called her and she said Yolanda well I read your book and I

(1:34:33) have to say I was dreading it because you’re my daughter and then I would have to tell my friends that you wrote the book and I you know wasn’t really sure what to expect and I know you’re a great writer i’ I’ve always known that but you are so very intense sometimes and I was just a little bit worried that the book was going to be this sort of angry pmic and I’m so proud of you and I think that everyone not just mothers not just pregnant women but everyone needs to read your book and so hearing that from my mom who yes is my biggest supporter

(1:35:06) and also has been my most honest critic over the years which I appreciate so much was just was meant a lot to me so thank you for all those kind words Kelly and yes I do have an amazing program an online course and it’s also called portal and it’s a much more practical education in how to actually Implement a lot of the the concepts and the ideas and the practices and tools that I I discuss in the book and yeah it’s an incredible program and actually I’ve received SE probably a hundred women have gone through it already and it’s

(1:35:43) been the most gratifying thing to receive messages from those women who have said that who’ve described the Blissful bursts that they’ve experienced afterwards and yeah it’s a very powerful program and it involves a lot of recorded material but I’m also there to hold women’s hands through the process of really uncovering who they are and looking at themselves with honesty and Clarity and developing some Frameworks that they can then take into their birth experiences with them and the rest of their lives as well in a space of

(1:36:18) mentorship directly with me so it’s a really a very unique offering that relates to birth but we’ve also had women who’ve done the course who are not yet pregnant or who are thinking of possibly becoming mothers and so yeah it’s a really wonderful wonderful offering that I’m really proud of so amazing amazing well thank you woman you are a force and a benevolent one at that so I’m really grateful to be on the path with you and thank you for this my first long form interview ever I’m an hour type of a gal and I knew that I I wanted

(1:36:52) to give you know the proper Airwaves to this very essential topic so thank you woman thank you so much Kelly