(00:01) [Music] I’m Dr Kelly Brogan you may know me as the New York Times bestselling author of a book with an exploding pill on the cover Renegade psychiatrist pul dancer or honorary member of the disinformation Dozen what can I say I’m a born provocator I’ve spent most of my recent life exposing deceptions connecting dots and discovering the secret places my inner victim is still waiting to be liberated and now I feel called to help you reclaim all of your parts your health your sexuality your power and your expression so that you can finally
(00:42) truly own yourself I want to ignite in you that inner knowing and the pulsing Vitality that lives beneath your disempowerment disconnection and resentment so that you can audaciously courageously and playfully alchemize your struggle into the specific pleasure of Who You Are this is Reclamation radio hi and welcome back to Reclamation radio I am Dr Kelly Brogan and I am here today with Alex Z who happens to be one of my all-time favorite humans walking this plane and if you don’t know who he is he is let’s see Alec I’m gonna call you a military
(01:21) man no longer though because people will use that against me sometimes oh yeah still in the military I think it’s cool the founder of the way forward which is also an epic very truth-telling podcast and somehow he has you know sort of slithered through all of the censorship grids in that in that Forum which I find extraordinary and also one of the producers of end of covid which I was um very excited to to be a part of and I um learned about you really through health freom for Humanity and the rise you know
(01:57) from whatever dark corner you were hiding in before that during the early days of the pandemic and of course I think many people at this point know that I have a beautiful Karma with your family and there’s a couple families from the days of my private practice that I have like woven like webs deeper into the The Matrix of the relations of my patients and and yours is one of them because your your mom is a very um public former patient of mine who has an extraordinary uh Reclamation story that we actually published in the medical literature and
(02:35) it trickled you know this kind of inspiration activation remembrance you know trickled into your life and and your wife’s life and it’s been amazing you know uh to have contact with your sister and you know your your greater umbrella of a family and I uh consider you to be my source of interpretation for what is going on on in the clown show like you are who I Look to to help me to get like a quick and dirty interpretation of what I might need to know or think about or consider since I have personally largely unsubscribed
(03:14) from the tick or tape of what the [ __ ] is going on out there sometimes I’m still a little curious and I want to know Alex take on it so the reason I mean apart from just feeling you know like I trust your heart it’s it’s also the way that your mind works and the way that your mind is anchored in really a lot of alchemical trauma work that you’ve clearly done because you otherwise wouldn’t be able to think without being unduly influenced let’s say or without your thinking being distorted by The Echoes of victim
(03:52) Consciousness that stem from our traumas and our our wounds and obviously we’re all susceptible at moments uh but I really consider you to have great Mastery in that realm at like what are you like 14 I mean you’re like literally like half my age so it’s amazing that you’ve 31 but close oh just it’s evidence right that there is there’s something that my generation is really burdened with and bogged down by that like these younger I I think younger and younger Generations seem to have more alacrity with so I um
(04:25) I would love to talk today Alec about thinking and I’ve seen you do dozens of presentations on this subject and I know you have like you know cool slideshows and all the rest but today we’re just going to chat about this very you know ontological uh phenomenological subject and I would like to start out you were like these are really big questions you’re gonna be ask hug question Alex is charged with answering but okay we’re hopping in the deep end and I know you’ve got this hav and the divon because many of us right so so we
(05:05) have some close homies in the collegial realm and we gather and many of us have concluded you know through our own Journeys through our own powers of observation and deductive reasoning that we are in the midst of a thinking crisis right the world over so when when you consider that possibility where do you think it starts like do you think that there are you know like dark overlords casting hypnotic spells do you think that it’s designed this way so that we can remember God like do you think that we are you know indoctrinated
(05:46) in our you know Rockefeller funded school systems and that we lose our capacities and gifts and talents of perception you know what do you think of as like some of the origins of the problem problem that I have seen you focus on most which is we we have to reclaim our minds right like we have to reclaim our faculties and you know here’s here’s how I know that right like here’s how I know that this problem is is a big one tell me about maybe like how you got turned on to this particular vantage point right because you and I
(06:21) have blown the whistle about biology and there’s so many specific areas that you could um focus on but what I’ve seen you zoom out to really invite people to consider is that we have this this thinking problem so what do you what do you think it’s about what do I think is the origin of the thinking problem so everything you mentioned there regarding like the dark overlords who are trying to do things to hinder our ability to think or manipulate us to think certain things or this being fundamental aspect of how this reality works and where just
(07:00) supposed to experience this and then the third thing you said was the Rockefeller school system which we know is based in the Prussian education model which was overtly stated to create obedient workers for the government essentially and I think it’s yes to all of that it’s it’s it’s yes to all of that and the other thing that you pointed to with respect to trauma and alchemizing the traumatic experiences that you’ve had in this lifetime I sort of look at that as a necessary precursor whether it’s something that occurred in this lifetime
(07:35) or in previous lifetimes if you buy into that idea I think it’s something that is required in order to you know put you through the fire to cultivate the faculties to be able to see clearly what’s going on in the world and I think when you’re taking all those things that you mentioned into consideration like I’ve you know I went through a lot of childhood trauma my my dad was very aggressive let’s say and my mom was very neglectful and it took some time for me to realize that wow my parents don’t know [ __ ] and I think that it can be
(08:14) very disorienting when you experience something like that but then when you sort of take those you know thoughts feelings and beliefs that have accumulated through that experience and you dissect them and and you really give them a look inside of you it helps you to to see that the only true source of knowledge is inside of you and this is like hinting at mysticism and that’s not to say we should show throw empiricism and uh and rationalism aside that’s that’s not what it is because as you know I’m very very big in holding uh
(08:56) virology in The Germ paradigms feet to the fire when it comes comes to their so-called empirical claims and I would consider myself a rational thinker but it’s it’s pointing to something deeper and it’s this mystical element that can only be discovered inside of yourself and I think it can only be be discovered based on those traumatic experiences that have been alchemized and am I complete in my alchemical processes absolutely not [ __ ] no absolutely not but I think if you’re open to the journey of alchemy and you’re willing to
(09:34) just be present with what is I think you see the world as it truly is yeah I call it like sober eye having sober eyes yeah having sober eyes yeah that’s a that’s a perfect way to describe it and of course all those other things that you named the dark overlords the the reality that this is the way this reality works and the oppression the education model all of those things play into that reality but they are all beautiful catalysts or they can be right beautiful catalysts to help us remember that’s it I I think that when you’re
(10:14) open to that you’re truly open to that and you’re not resisting it you’re open to what is and you’re open to the truth of what is and then I think what helps is you you have ma a mom and dad who you come to realize don’t know [ __ ] then you also start looking at other so-called authority figures and you say you don’t [ __ ] know [ __ ] either you you have no clue so then it becomes a journey of questioning how do you know what you claim to know any of it everything like there’s nothing off the table and I think for a lot of people that can lead
(10:51) them to a position of nihilism where it’s like [ __ ] like dude we can’t know anything why even try to know anything at all and that’s not the position that I come from is that they all claim to know right all these people claim to know and I really think largely that they claim to know because they have not dealt with the things inside of them that I’m referring to right and because they haven’t dealt with that they’re unable to sit in the uncertainty of not knowing they have to cling on to something outside of them and cl cling
(11:26) to this knowledge and I think when you are able to reconcile and and wrestle and dance with the happenings inside of you I think it you know allows you to see the world as it truly is like I said so I don’t know if that answers your question yeah yeah for sure and that you know in in this psychobiology realm you may know this already but there’s a term called neuroception which is like your capacity this interoception which is your Like Your Capacity to scan your body and and be aware bring awareness to the sort of signals of of unsafety that
(12:03) are in your body and then neuroception is your perception on the outside of safety right so danger and safety risk assessment and you know sometimes they use an example where it’s like you know if you have a pile of laundry in the dim light of your bedroom you might like have a whole somatic sequence unfold and be like there’s like an intruder right is gonna like get me and if you can like see clearly you can see it’s laundry and you have zero sematic sequence unfold so how and where are those inner somatic
(12:38) sequences being triggered it’s the lens right it’s like the virtual reality goggles like that we’re looking through that are potentially being strategically manipulated and you can take them off right so like you do have two hands to to to remove them you know metaphorically and so how do we how do we get to that place so you may not know the answer to this but like in your journey in your process do you think that like first you started to recognize that command of your thought apparatus was the first order of
(13:15) business and then you started to see like oh wow like there are um a lot of ways I could think one thing if I was afraid and think another thing if I was less afraid or could hold my fear and and so what’s this what’s the deal with fear how about I work on that right like how about I work on my traumas and my you know wounds and my relationships and and optimize that or did you start to do inner work uh I think I know the answer but like did you the answer is the lad if I if I may jump in because I can sit here and say it’s very process related
(13:47) do you have like a diagram on your wall of how you think and how you determine someone something is true on a scale of 1 to 10 and you put it through this criteria blah blah blah blah blah no I don’t you that stuff so it’s almost like I I feel impostor syndrome when people say I really appreciate the way that you think how do you think and I’m like I don’t know how I think I just know I just I just know that the claims that they make about certain things aren’t true and I have this inner knowing that the best way to get to a you know more
(14:24) whole example of a certain truth is to unpeel or peel back all of the things that aren’t true that’s it and there are different methods that people use to determine whether something is true physically and metaphysically when it comes to you know physically determining something is true that’s empiricism and rationalism right when it’s metaphysically you know determining whether something is true and this is where it can get a little bit sticky that would be something like mysticism and then there’s a lot of more new age
(15:00) people out there who think that they’re channeling the plans and things like this I just don’t buy into any of that stuff and you know maybe for them in their little corner of reality they may think that that is true and that’s okay so long as their little corner is then not violently wielding itself against us and at the same time I fully believe that if they are able to do that we we attracted it so it’s like this weird dance of of you know in this weird interplay of all of us and now in terms of how I think I think it
(15:42) was absolutely a result of experiencing trauma like experiencing a lot of childhood trauma and of course people have experienced more trauma than me but I experienced some pretty [ __ ] up [ __ ] relative to most kids in Western countries and for me I am so great looking back at that because I know it has given me the capacity to see and that’s really all I can say about that yeah and perhaps because of your specific reaction formation as we’d call it like your response to the authority figures that were charged with your care
(16:17) you know there is an embedded which of course I I share an embedded mistrust that is the foundation for thinking on your own you know I still I still imagine that there was some initiatory moment in your young life you know maybe around the early pandemic where you know there was like an ignition right like yeah right and because I think absent that sense of you know it’s like your your your spine coming online like you absent obviously men are not initiated you did go you know into a military environment and I
(16:57) don’t know if you would consider it that but like there was some some Confluence of factors that resulted in your sense of personal responsibility and a capacity to mitigate the the fear of speaking out that most people have right because you know there were a few of us who came out the gate questioning not just you know what the the shenanigans of the the government right but questioning more deeply you could say and that led us to really you know sort of cohere around this this virology germ Theory reframe shall we
(17:37) say yeah yeah and you know that to speak about that requires that you you know that that you value your own truth your own posture your own authority more than you value connection right and and whatever you get through this sense of of um being a part of the social Fabric and you know we know people who who know the truth and and would rather not speak about it which is you you got to meet yourself where you are but there was something that turned on in inside of you obviously and I wonder if you could speak a little bit to like why do you
(18:18) think you got got it’s probably present tense you are so passionate about germ Theory why do you think that that you know sort of the virus evidence or lack thereof was something that became like a fulcrum for you you know that that’s really tipped you over into so many and myself as well into so many other points of of inquiry you know like what what do you think it it is about that specific topic that really yeah sort of like started the ignition for you I think that the reason I became almost obsessive over this specific topic is
(18:54) because I saw that it was rooted in us having our power taken from us of not only power but also ownership over our own lives because it was just another way that we could blame an external thing or our circumstances and you know I had this realization the other day and this is going to sound like yeah no duh for a lot of your audience but it like really hit me at a deep level because I was struggling with some stuff related to some famili I things I was sitting in my sa and I was like that thing that is that happened to me is no longer present
(19:37) here with me now the only thing that is real is the story about it in my mind and is that even real is that really here right now with me so the only thing that is perpetuating my own suffering at this point are my thoughts feelings and beliefs and then subsequent actions based on those aligned thoughts feelings and beliefs and so from a sort of meta perspective I look at anything in this reality that inhibits our ability from taking 100% ownership of ourselves because the germ quote Theory and it’s a failed hypothesis is one of
(20:20) those things that is rooted in misaligned beliefs because it does not hold weight both you know rational empirically or mystically right if if you want I’m sure you know medical medium would say well my guides tell me that viruses were made blah blah blah blah blah but point is that you could sort of come at it on all three levels there and and it doesn’t hold water in either of the three but so it’s it’s just one of those examples as is statism that allows us to put the blame outside of ourselves or and really it’s
(20:58) and or allows us to latch on to something as a savior outside of ourselves and I am fully convinced that my experiences in this life going forward especially as I become aware are based in my own thoughts feelings beliefs and actions and damn is that empowering but also damn is that [ __ ] scary because there’s no one to blame anymore for your circumstances except for you and I think a lot of people can take the sort of David goggin’s approach of like harden up [ __ ] like no one’s coming to save you but I think it’s there there
(21:43) there’s some compassion there too for for the lack of awareness up to this point and for the reality that you know we’re in this reality that has a lot of presentation for various trauma based catalysts that are challenging and I’m not saying that we should just like in the moment you know when something let’s say like our kid dies or something like that just be like oh [ __ ] it I need to reorient my thoughts feelings beliefs that’s not that’s not it you feel them you feel the things as they are and you feel them to completion but then you get
(22:16) to the point that you have to reorient your lives and and sort of transmute that thing and once you felt it to completion to to use it to to birth something better and that’s how I look back on all of my trauma I’m like I could very easily continue to blame blame blame blame blame for how I am presenting right now right but that doesn’t serve me that doesn’t serve me and that’s where I have gotten to a place where I genuinely look back on my trauma and I’m like I am so grateful genuinely grateful for that experience
(22:47) for those experiences and again it’s it’s this hour that you cultivate inside of you to know that I am creating this experience for my myself like I am actively creating this based on my daily thoughts feelings beliefs and actions so that’s that’s kind of why I’ve tackled this and I think the layer below that is it’s it’s just rooted in total [ __ ] it’s it’s very clearly not true and it’s again used in in a way to weaponize in a weaponized fashion to get us to do all those things that I just mentioned before so that’s why I’ve latched on to
(23:28) it and then I think that it goes back to what I had said previously regarding being able to sit with not knowing like I look at that as an exercise that is extremely fun for me to be like wow none of them know [ __ ] I don’t really know that much I have a sense of what is true I know that all the things that they’re pointing to are complete [ __ ] though and I’m just going to explore and try to figure out what’s true and analyze every single claim that they make about history about science about physics about all of it and that’s
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(25:17) the linkoln show notes it is fun that’s that’s what I’ve come to I think you would agree is the the truth when you you dig deep enough and you peel back as you said enough of those layers of deception the truth feels good right like where we arrive where you arrive when you defrag The Germ hypothesis programming is alignment with your body the experience of deep meaning through your expressed through your symptoms and a total resolution of the contamination Consciousness that says and somebody’s going to do something bad to me and you know what we
(26:01) have seen is that you can dig a layer right and you can get to this layer where I think Amanda uh vulmer refers to it as the double cross right like you can go a little bit deep and you can say oh I get it now like there are these bad people who are doing this bad stuff to us right like they’re they’re they’ve engineered this virus and that is what we have to expose that that truth does that feels terrible that feels just as bad as some like natural biological phenomenon right and when you go the layer deeper right so like you know I
(26:43) think she used like the JFK example like you know when you think the CIA killed him versus when you think the whole he’s still on an island somewhere or whatever like when you go deep enough and you ask deep enough questions like you can arrive at a place where it actually feels good and and you know that’s true for a lot of the cosmological questioning is a lot of people who’ve you know we’ve seen who’ve questioned the the nature of you know this the programming around the solar system and NASA and all this stuff like you get to
(27:12) this this deep reconnection to like awe and inspiration like I don’t know how anybody else explains that when they get to the what we’ll call the true Earth you know perspective on things it just feels better right like you’re reconnected to you know if you want to call it God whatever you want to you know refer to feels much more meaningful meaningful yeah and and Define and infused with something that feels like design you know so so can I comment on that real quick yeah of course yeah I think for the the genuine Seeker right
(27:47) when when we’re peeling back these things that are untrue that that people claim whether it’s the the mainstream or the alternative side it’s it’s the subtle feeling at least for me I can only speak my own experience is a subtle feeling inside of me where it’s like that’s not it and then I throw it away I throw it to the side and I’m like okay there’s a layer deeper and I get to that I’m like that’s still not the complete picture and what it’s rooted in it’s like I’m being pulled by this this feeling inside of me that knows what the
(28:22) truth is but I can’t articulate it I can’t speak it it it word won’t do it justice there’s something inside of me that is a more like meta larger truth of the way things work the way things are and how all of these pieces fit together and I it cannot be articulated but the only way we can articulate It Is by continually falsifying the things that any group says is true and it’s it’s it’s pulling and saying okay yeah maybe this now that I’ve gone 10 layers deeper on this specific topic this is a piece of it but this isn’t the full picture
(28:57) there’s some deeper truth trth here and then just continuing to explore that and I think that is the journey itself like that is the whole point that is literally the whole point of it all and I don’t know that in this lifetime we will ever get to Supreme knowledge on anything but I don’t think that’s that that’s not the purpose of it I think it’s just to continue to be on the Journey of unraveling and and pointing orienting ourselves towards what is true but never actually being able to reach it in this experience absolutely and
(29:28) that it’s the phenomenological nature of remembrance you know that it it feels something like you described and it’s not very charged right so so if when I’ve had huge charge you know around my truthtv always been arrested in that layer we were just referring to where it was still Warfare Consciousness it was still projected bad mommy daddy business and as I’ve gone deeper and deeper into you know what you’re describing is is this maturation I would call it of victim Consciousness into like Sovereign Consciousness it just feels totally
(30:14) different there’s almost like this kind of like I don’t know like a like a mischievous kind of like smile about it it’s like wow okay this is yeah okay bring it on and I think that one of the tools that you have in your holster that that helps to drain the the charge and the projection from this otherwise you know very potentially um perilous field you know uh that is like it’s like a mindfield of places you could step on and take personally right like so many dimensions of what is being discussed in terms of these polarizing
(30:54) topics and the tools that you bring to the table that I I have found like refer to the way you talk about it all the time is is the logical fallacies right it’s like one of the in the year that I homeschool that was like literally what I taught my kids was the you know Tuttle twins logical fallacies books and I’m not sure there’s anything else you really need to know except how to not take the bait of you know fancy rhetoric that is um potentially simultaneously in in service of deceiving the speaker and and The Listener so I wonder you know
(31:31) and I know you’ve spoken about this that nauseum but I wonder if you could give like a couple of the highlights of the logical fallacies that you think really clarified things for you in the virology realm as probably one of the best examples of where logical fallacies live just so that somebody who’s like never heard of even that phrase will begin to start to generate awareness as they’re listening to people talk about you know contagion infection and the uh existence of this fictitious entity yeah so before
(32:02) I do that I think it’s important to clarify if someone is looking for a framework of I guess how I think if I had to and this isn’t the full picture ironically but this isn’t the full picture like I can’t really describe how I think but I think these three things again empiricism rationalism and then mysticism so empiricism when let’s say within the context of biology or really any claims about something occurring in the natural world employ the scientific method to determine if that thing is the cause of another thing so you have an
(32:38) observed natural phenomenon occurring and you want to know whether the thing you think is the cause is the is the actual cause of that observed natural phenomenon so that would be employing empiricism which is you know the scientific method and when it comes to rationalism like again it’s it’s in my mind the definitions for rationalism and the definitions for a rational coherent argument don’t really do justice or or a service to any of us to really sufficiently explain what a coherent argument is pretty similar to what I was
(33:12) saying earlier the best way to determine what is a rational argument is to be able to point out all the irrational arguments which is where You’ employ you know logical fallacies to be able to recognize when things are not rational and I guess the the last category like I said is mysticism and that re Ires that you do a lot of transmutation of your own trauma in order to be able to listen Inward and I think it’s like a constellation of all three of those things that I employ to figure out whether something is true or pointing to
(33:40) something that is more true so for for logical fallacies the the ones that I see more most often with respect to virology I would say are appeals to authority of course which that’s that’s an easy one when you’re citing an authority figure’s position or uh a body of governing a governing body’s uh position on something as you know your argument the biggest one though I would say is a reification fallacy and that’s where you’re assigning characteristics to something that is still fundamentally abstract you’re saying that a virus
(34:17) mutates you’re saying that a virus requires a culture you’re saying that a virus uh causes X Y and Z set of symptoms that’s what’s called a reification fallacy and the reason that it’s that is because a virus is still an abstract concept it’s not a thing that has been concretely proven to exist or do anything in reality whatsoever and that’s where you would have to refer back to empiricism to be able to see if viruses have been proven to exist and cause illness right and I mean how do you know whether something exists in
(34:54) reality or not you you could go really deep on this topic and be like again that kind of leads to nihilism where it’s like I don’t how do we know that any of this exists right but you have to go with you have to have a a foundational starting point right like I know I exist I know my kids exist for the sake of this experience I can touch my kids I can hold my kids right Dr Ken provides the example of being able to take a hammer out of a toolbox I can take the Hammer by itself away from all the other tools inside the toolbox to
(35:30) then use the hammer so when it comes to viruses you they’ve never been demonstrated to exist ever they’ve always just been assumed to exist and I think that this leads you down a path and this this has happened to me where when I take the scientific method as an example and then again all the logical fallacies and I’ll come back to this I’m making a longer Point here when I take the scientific method and painted against or just just set it against virology methods to determine the existence and cause causation uh in
(36:06) disease symptoms of a virus it doesn’t hold water and then what you know as a molecular biologist has said to me they’ll say well then you must think all of Cell Biology is totally [ __ ] because we employ a lot of the same methods in virtually all of Cell Biology and all of molecular biology and microbiology and my answer to that is yes Absolut absolutely right because we’re taking these creations of man these tools right these these Technologies and I’m not saying that they don’t have some positive benefits
(36:42) in their use but that are inherently flawed and then we’re taking we’re attempting to take something in this case excising tissue and then taking snot from a sick person and taking them out of their natural context in natural observable reality and then mixing them with a bunch of other things and thinking that that informs us on what is happening in natural reality and it’s just absurd right so the other ones that I come across to are the the burden of proof fallacy and this is a huge one when it comes to logic and this is
(37:18) actually actually a maxim of law the burden of proof lies on the one presenting the positive claim so the positive claim in this case in the case of virology is that viruses exist and cause illness so the burden of proof is on the individuals who are making that claim to provide evidence for said claim I can’t prove that viruses don’t exist like I can’t prove that unicorns don’t exist or that garden gnomes with lasers for eyes don’t exist I can’t prove any of that the burden of proof lies on those who are presenting the claim and
(37:55) I’d say the the other one that I see quite a bit to especially amongst the health Freedom Community is the affirming the consequent logical fallacy where they’ll say something to the effect of I know the virus exists because I was sicker than I’ve ever been or I had symptoms of illness therefore that is proof of the virus if you’re claiming that X exists and causes y you need to establish empirically evidence that X exists and causes why you can’t point to why the effect the observed natural phenomenon people getting sick
(38:35) even people getting multiple people getting sick in the same space with similar symptoms as proof of X absent of establishing a positive relationship between X and Y and I see so many people especially in the health Freedom Community do that I know it was an engineered virus because I had symptoms that I’ve never had before and and it’s I mean obviously it’s extremely illogical but it’s there are countless other explanations for what causes this phenomenon this is again an exercise and I have no clue I can’t say with
(39:10) certainty what causes let’s say someone to lose their taste and smell for 18 months I have no idea do I deny that that phenomenon is real no I don’t deny it and I would say unfortunately there’s a lot of people who become so glued to thinking that they know with certainty that it is this thing sort of in the train camp they’re like ah you know I think that’s all in your head but for some people that I know it’s it’s not really quote all in their head this is something that they’ve experienced and these are people that know have known
(39:40) for since 2015 2016 that viruses have never been shown to exist and that gain of function is a scop and they still experience extended loss of taste and smell but then this is where it becomes an exercise of being able to sit in the I don’t know and be okay with the I don’t know and continue as things come into your awareness of dissecting them and sitting with them and saying hm is this a piece of the puzzle is this a piece of the picture is this pointing to something that is deeper and more true if not throw it aside nope that’s not it
(40:18) if yes okay let’s hold on to this and let’s go let’s go deep into this topic and I think that a lot of people struggle with that yeah if it’s not what you’re saying it is then what is it right that you have to have all of these package prepackage replacement theories in order to question and even interrogate like with the intention to to to expose what might not be internally consistent the original positive Theory can I say one more one more logical fallacy real quick the other one that’s really big and this kind of plays into
(40:50) the affirming the consequent because they’re affirming the consequent is a form of circular reasoning but it’s it’s when your already has the conclusion baked into it and that one it biology is riddled with that so that that would be the other one that I see pretty often I mean there’s so many logical fallacies that we could get to with respect to biology but that one is is another key one too sorry to interrupt where you’re no it’s perfect I think it has like a Latin name petio Principe or something it’s like where
(41:20) you’re already assuming that what you’re testing is real as you’re testing it and you know people would be surprised how often that is I I think you know when I zoom out I think that most you know if you want to call them lay people whatever people who aren’t otherwise exposed to like bench scientific research or you know the hallowed Halls of these you know IV League institutions Etc to to imagine that there would be very intelligent people it’s like the pyramid scheme right to very intelligent people going to their job you know in
(41:56) the morning that are are participating in in in in this house of carts right that are participating in all of these illusory assumptions like these gross assumptions they’re like come on like how could that be the case like somebody would have exposed that by now and that’s like often the thinking that that allows us to abdicate responsibility for inquiry right like you’re just like if it were if there was more to see here we would have already seen it and too many people are in on it but you and I know because you know you’ve spoken to more
(42:29) actual researchers and scientists in this realm than I certainly have you know that yes they are intelligent people and and yes there is um there are foundational assumptions that have never been questioned because we’re in this this myopic place of like looking at these little and and I’ve done bench research I actually participated in virological research in um at Rockefeller University I mean back in the days of my my med school training and all I had to do was like pipet this serum from one little plastic bottle to the other and then you
(43:03) know see what happened and so when you’re in the granular details and nobody’s asking the bigger picture questions it’s very easy to imagine that there are millions of people who are reifying this every single day and that’s why nobody’s ever asked I look at it with my military experience right luckily I’ve never served in combat but I’ve been involved in planning for either training operations or to some degree what would have been just real deployment operations non-combat deployment operations but nonetheless
(43:33) deployment operations and there when you’re immersed in your specific job and it’s compartmentalized you’re doing that job and you think it’s legitimate and you trust the people are your left and right are doing their specific jobs and there’s some crossover in communication between the two but you are fully bought into what you’re doing without let’s say in this case ever questioning the foundational assumption that are there actually terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan like how many people stop to question that there are some who
(44:04) do there are some who do but then because the people to the left and their right are continuing on with their work they’re like ah well you know I’m just a guy with limited knowledge limited capacity know someone knows better than I do and I’m doing my specific role and I’m pretty good at it so I’m just going to continue on doing it there there must be something that I don’t know about this instead of stopping to think and say wait where have they proved this foundational claim and when you’re the one person who
(44:33) pops their head up to say that especially you know in this Society if you’re wanting to stay in the system for lack of better term but within the confines of that experience you’re going to you know be there going to be consequences perhaps there’s going to be some major consequences for you speaking and that what that is what present prevents people from going on this inward Journey of and it’s when you’re immersed in a field let’s say for virology the cognitive dissonance associated with having to reconcile the reality that your whole
(45:11) field in the fields that are you know adjacent to your own that complement your own are completely nonsense is too hard for many people to wrestle with and I I have compassion for that do I think that there’s this grand scheme where all virologists are in on it and they know the truth and they’re just not telling us that is absurd and you know it’s it’s like those claims that I see coming from people in the health Freedom space too where they’re like oh so you really expect us to believe that all virologists are in
(45:42) on it I’m like when you were waking up to this whole covid thing did you think all doctors were in on it or was it simply that they were taught this and they never question the foundational assumption so people love to ask me questions and I love to ask questions of others because inquiry is play but some of my interviews and answers are too hot to handle for Reclamation radio so in my membership vitol life project I have created a private podcast that gets delivered to wherever you listen to podcasts where I answer your questions
(46:15) that arise because of my provocative subject matter and I also share interviews that might otherwise be sensored that I call the sovereignty Series so you’ll get access to these private podcasts and a private a chat by joining my membership V life project I’ll see you in there and you’ve come to the same you’ve come I think to the same paradigmatic issues with politics right because you know you and I have seen uh some folks who can question biologically let’s say you know who can who can go to the places you’re suggesting we go
(46:47) foundationally with inquiry and then you know partisan politics you know comes up and the circus rolls into town and you they are they’re jumping on the you know the RFK bandwagon or or whatever else and and I imagine you would suggest that there’s like a level of a depth of inquiry that is probably necessary in that case it’s there’s an interesting you brought up this uh constellation right of of like if you believe in The Germ Paradigm from a health Freedom con like Health Freedom person who believes in The Germ
(47:22) Paradigm you are probably likely to believe in politics too I I am willing to bet 99 times out of a 100 that will be the case and it’s because it’s rooted in the same framework for reality and that you’re unwilling to go deeper and continue questioning assumption after assumption and claim after claim and again I don’t know what makes us unique Kelly I was just talking about this with Tom on an episode that I recorded with him where it’s like we’re willing to go there I it’s not a fearful exercise for me to question the
(48:02) foundational assumption like in this case for politics people are like oh we need to vote RFK in because RFK would be a better candidate instead of questioning the foundational assumption and not only questioning it but living by it like is it true that men have the right to dictate the lives of other men or you know men and women lives of other men and women without them expressing that they have that right no like who gives them that right who gives them that right where where where was it and even if it was written what is the the
(48:40) foundation for that you know Paradigm and there are so many in the health Freedom space that are unwilling to question that foundational assumption and actually live by it right who are otherwise interested in consent and and contracts right like lcid contracts yeah the diathesis as I I call it because I’ve been studying this and and watching it because there are so many people who I would otherwise have like spiritual interests in common with or even you know sort of activist related interests because I find that the the
(49:14) dots that I’ve connected right so it’s so-called antivaxers right so whatever I don’t really mind that SL people get you don’t want to be associated with it I call myself that all the time fine so people who are advocating for vaccine Choice let’s say right they are also very focused on simultaneously on the engineered virus theory of the pandemic they also are very concerned about parasites and Lyme disease very like to the point of obsessive end dorant Epstein bar virus I’d throw in there too throw in there and they
(49:51) believe in Globe cosmology right so they believe in conventional so and people might be like what the who cares like what does that have to do with anything it has to do okay does absolutely does and they are voting for RFK right so like and and not to be dehumanizing like you know the this is some sort of like meta monster or something but I have been curious like what is the description of the layer of Consciousness that is captured by these dominant thought forms that I just listed and the only thing that I can
(50:24) come up with and I think you would agree is that this is It’s victim Consciousness cloaked in sovereignty right so it’s like a trickster it’s like a trickster realm where you’ve taken the you’ve made the poor bargain right like you’ve taken the poison apple you have imagined yourself isn’t there some quote that’s like you know no one is more enslaved than somebody who imagined they’re free kind of a thing like where you tell yourself oh I’ve jail broken myself and you’ve just Fallen like one layer deeper but the Resonance of Us
(50:58) Versus Them the Resonance of the zero some game the Resonance of like I am yes fundamentally disempowered and I will take it back right it’s it’s the Adolescent fight with the vilified parents who were once idealized and it’s a trap it is a trap and I and I would go without sounding like what I’ve actually become which is a moral relativist without sounding you know like I have abdicated any sort of inner compass around ethics the good evil split it’s very problematic it’s very problematic and that’s why I think sometimes you know
(51:35) Christian Believers let’s say can fall into this second layer where there is like this fight against evil right and if you want to get you know psychological about it it’s possible that it’s just another way that we’re projecting our own shadow Parts you know it’s just another projection screen it’s like you have the mainstream projection screen you know that you can get told on Fox and NBC and then you have this alt projection screen where you’re still putting out all of your heinous attributes all of your capacity to to
(52:08) you know harm others and do the bad things and and you’ve personified it in in in parasites and and viruses and government bad governments and you know pedos and all the things and the the the cosmology peace is there too right because you fundamentally still believe that we are you know spinning on a dead Rock in the middle of nowhere having been conceived through a big bang or whatever and looking to NASA to tell us about you know what is what is the nature of this realm and so there’s there’s something that ties
(52:42) together all of those those perspectives that you know you and I and our colleagues are like a relatively small an uncomfortably small group of folks who who don’t subscribe to any of it just so happens right like we don’t subscribe to any of those particular perspectives and I don’t otherwise know how to explain it because do you think it’s a thinking thing do you think it’s a a spiritual thing it’s both because it’s those three that you’re saying I guess yes it’s those three it’s the empiricism the rationalism and and I
(53:17) hate God I hate applying like you know specific like oh these three categories it feels very moanis and it’s not that but it’s it’s like a cross of all three of those things and like I think that let me think of how I want to articulate this because it’s it’s really hard to articulate it and I I think you you know what I mean it’s just hard to articulate what it is like what what the difference is and it’s it’s victimhood but it’s it’s victimhood clo cloaked in sovereignty like in under the guise of sovereignty
(53:50) but it’s it’s deeper than that it’s yeah I I don’t even know I don’t even know how to articulate it so when when you meet someone you know you’re out at a rave as you are no I’m kidding like wherever you might meet someone right so when you meet three-year-old in a in a maybe bejor so when you’re out in the world and you encounter somebody and let’s say like Okay so let’s say you’re like at a conference or something and you you know that you have some shared interest but you’re like not totally sure whether or
(54:22) not you um are touching into that constell we’ve referenced or not how do you what are the things that you look for in terms of how you can perceive somebody to be as a thinker yeah I again I think it all goes back to like willingness and ability to sit comfortably in uncertainty and be totally okay with that and really having like nothing is off the table to question like nothing like being being willing to openly question all of it and being totally okay with that like I just have a feeling let’s say when I go to a
(55:04) gathering in Austin that there are certain camps where like I have this feeling inside of me where I probably shouldn’t bring that up because I can just tell by the way these people think that that topic may be too far for them to explore just by the way that they’re articulating their so-called knowledge of other things and it’s it’s that and I think a level of of humility too and being able to sit like there there are a lot of people especially quote influencers who want to come across with this certainty that they know what certainty that
(55:42) something is as it is and they get attached that specific set of beliefs and I think those are the the two things yeah I mean I guess a Nuance is that I’ve experienced and so have you is like somebody can be open which I agree is is a right and and I would call that because I like to think in terms of like polarity and woundology like I I think until you’ve done some basic father wound work like you don’t know how to be wrong you literally don’t know to be wrong so you know if if that openness comes from having a more matured concept of of what
(56:22) being wrong is right and you have the capacity to say I don’t know because you don’t imagine that it would make you a bad and wrong person if you thought something that then later you you thought differently about okay so if somebody’s open-minded fantastic but then you and I have both presented information to an open-minded person and it’s just like literally gone in one year and out the other like it’s not taken root and they they might even say like oh yeah okay yeah totally about you know of course about the virus thing or
(56:54) yeah yeah yeah and then and then you’ll hear them speaking and referencing said virus that you just talked to them it’s like what what happened the information wasn’t enough and so so that’s why it’s like when you and I are looking at these like these thought form webs I think it’s really important to consider because it’s like one little disrupted piece can’t live by itself right it’s going to collapse back into a victim Consciousness field even if it’s dressed up you know as being emancipated if the whole thought form Field Web doesn’t
(57:32) come with it and that’s a lot to ask right because essentially when you’re saying hey might you consider the fact that a virus has never been isolated like actually what you’re asking is like you know are you ready to go on like the most horrific plan medicine ceremony unattended by any c andto you’ve ever been on you know like because your entire the fabric of your reality is about to melt and you have to sustain the space in between realities right like where we don’t necessarily have a replacement one to tuck you into and of
(58:05) course you know you and I have been discussing that you you sort of like wake up out of the anesthesia and it’s confusing and disorienting and scary and very quickly like it becomes okay and you actually learn that that’s where your navigational orientation comes from is the okayness as you’re you said many times like the okayness with not knowing the thing but now having an apparatus where you can reliably question what is put in front of you you can discern then then therefore choose right and I’ve just found it fascinating like how many
(58:40) of our colleagues like get one layer and just don’t just don’t get it in so many others or they get it for a minute and then they forget and they’re talking about viruses again and contagion and be careful and take your I’ve had that experience yeah there there’s this one doctor that I know who is she’s gone back and forth so many times even on her own page where she’ll makes make claims about viruses and biology and then immediately Flip or make very empowering claims about us being in a symbiotic relationship with socalled parasites and
(59:13) then a week later be making posts on parasite cleanses and things like this and I think what you’re pointing to regarding the the victim Consciousness that permeates this sort of how do you say that word again di dith thesis oh diis yeah I it’s like a medical term I like weaved them in I don’t even know okay maybe that’s why I’ve never heard of it before I’m like that’s that’s a medical thing I don’t know luckily I wasn’t indoctrinated into that Campa but it it is rooted in in victimhood in many ways and I think that’s why as you’re
(59:48) dissecting these these various claims employing those three things again if you want a framework it for me in my life and my my own experience has all pointed back to self-ownership 100% self- ownership and self- responsibility being the key out of the Matrix if you will like that that’s it and that’s why we’re there there’s some people who wake up to the virology thing and some then they don’t get the the politics thing but again that’s very rare that someone truly wakes up to the virology thing and understands it at a deep level that
(1:00:27) again is informed in the the reality because that’s what you have to come to terms with that whoa holy [ __ ] my health is one almost 100% a function of my own thoughts feelings beliefs and actions right and at the least if there are some things out there like [ __ ] that they’re spraying in the sky things like that right or 5G Towers whatever it is still 100% my responsibility to deal with it right and someone who gets that because that’s what you get to when you continue to peel back virology again above the
(1:01:02) superficial and I consider it superficial now oh virus hasn’t been isolated there’s deeper elements to be found there and when you get to those deeper elements you cannot possibly if you’re truly embodying them then also think that ah the best way for me to experience freedom in my own life is to vote or is to do any of these other things related to politics you can’t possibly have that there’s just there’s just no way there’s no consistency in that framework and that’s ultimately what it is it’s the it’s the subtle
(1:01:36) elements of victimhood that are still present in you where you think that there are things outside of you that are coming to get you ironically if you believe that and then act upon it you will create scenarios where that is true but where you not only think that but you are also orienting your life in such a way that it it creates more of it like I said but there’s there’s one other piece it’s that you’re orienting your life in such a way that there are things outside of you that are coming to get you and or
(1:02:12) like I said earlier there are things that are coming to save you outside of you it’s it’s it’s rooted in both of those things that there are things that are coming to get you and likewise there are things coming to save you when all of that both both of those across the Spectrum occur within you like it all comes back to 100% ownership and responsibility over your thoughts feelings beliefs and actions and as we are employing these these three Frameworks to to take their various claims of what is and and casing them
(1:02:45) aside it’s like that’s another lens that we can sort of filter them through these these various claims aside from the you know empiricism rationalism and then this like mystical inner knowing two other things to apply is is this rooting me like putting me back into the camp that believes there are things outside of me coming to save me and or is this putting me back in the camp that beli there are things outside of me coming to get me coming to harm me and if those two things if those two categories are and you know in addition
(1:03:21) to these other three are checked off then it’s probably [ __ ] yeah because that’s literally like the it’s so helpful and it’s the definition of the victim triangle right where you have there’s the villain out there you’re pointing at and you’re waiting for your rescuer right and so you can sit comfortably in your victimhood and you’ve heard me run my mouth about how you know I think angry activists are like themselves some of the greatest purveyors of victim Consciousness right because we not only we are embodying the
(1:03:52) villain who and Out For Blood you know from the enemy we’re obsessed with but then we’re also reifying the powerlessness of the victim that we imagine we’re you know standing for who would never be able to do it without us and there’s so much of a peret just like the allopathic you know sort of model you’re perpetuating exactly that which you’re purporting to resolve just like a good pharmaceutical right you are creating the problem in a long-term fashion you know that you are claiming you’re going to resolve the acid
(1:04:22) blockers the anti-depressants whatever this is what they do and that’s why I think it’s it is really helpful to to have the tools of rationalism to recruit them back into the field to uh it’s like piercing piercing these piercing holes in these hypnotic veils that otherwise are are very um yeah they’re they’re powerful and they’re lasting and it’s like you can’t ever expect somebody to just peel it back it’s a it’s very tall order so that’s why I think you know you and I walk the world and we’re just feeling you know we’re feeling for like who
(1:05:02) might be on this tip because it you know we can play the game of of the debate right I know you’ve done it I I I do not play the debate game right like you can you can go and and you know Tom and Andy and you can gather y’all and and the Bailey and we can do that I don’t really have much interest for it anymore at all though like that was maybe a year ago not not anymore like I I have no desire to try to prove that to anyone on that side I don’t really give I don’t give two shits like I don’t care yeah I mean
(1:05:35) unless you’re offering like a suite of trauma healing Therapies in addition to your discourse like there’s not going to be yield and you know not to reduce it just to to trauma but to your point that’s one of the major um infrastructural you know elements of our thoughts and and and beliefs and so I um I’m with you I’m so grateful you know to have you as a brother and an ally and a friend and I I would love for you to share what’s like alive for you now because I know you know that you’ve you kind of migrate your way as I do through
(1:06:15) related you know Reclamation themes and also there are things that you’re kind of sick of talking about and probably have humored me in this hour and then I then I get invited to speak on it somewhere and I’m like well [ __ ] maybe there are other people who need to continue to hear this and that’s okay but like my my my thing that I’m really really excited about now that I’m sort of moving into and I’ve become obsessed with it is it’s going to sound like oh okay a cult knowledge but a cult knowledge on on Alchemy like on on
(1:06:48) metaphysical alchemy that is where I’m like obsessed obsessed obsessed obssessed obsessed lately and that’s like all I’m reading that’s all I’m looking into because I think that’s where the rubber meets the road so to speak like you brought up this example of an activist who is perpetuating a lot of the same things that they claim to be opposing and it’s like what occurred to me in that moment is if they just stopped and pause and realize that this traumatic experience is the medicine is the medicine itself and what they’re
(1:07:18) doing by continually pointing pointing pointing is resisting the medicine they’re just poisoning themselves further they’re taking that initial act you could say of poisoning and just poisoning themselves more instead of using that and transmuting it alchemizing inside of them to turn it into medicine for a gift for themselves and for others and that’s where I’m at right now and I guess how that presents itself this is not really going to tie in but what I’m doing with the way forward is um I we’re in the middle of launching the second version
(1:07:52) of our platform where if you let’s say you listen to this episode and and this sounds like you know Kelly and I seem like the type of people you’d want to associate with just in the way that we we think and the way that we express ourselves we have a a membership platform where you can type in your zip code and find like-minded people who are interested in the same things near you and just with the 800 some odd members that we have up to this point we like virtually every one of them is like that they get it and I feel so blessed to be
(1:08:23) surrounded by people who just get it and I don’t know what it is but they do they get it the ineffable resolution of that um isolation that we experien probably from The Cutting of the the court as infants right and and looking for that experience of belonging that we can confer to each other and it probably has something to do with coming into you know resonant Fields um that are represented by these beliefs and I I love I love what you’re describing and that’s really interesting I’ll have to talk to you um on a future pod about the
(1:08:59) um occult exploration that’s exactly where I have found myself as well you know for this Reas now yeah exactly yeah I’ll jam on this with you it’s like pretty much what I’m exploring in my spare time is ex exactly like what is known about uh metaphysical Alchemy and how to work with you know our own literally obsessed like obsessed with it right now that’s all I care about I love it I love it Alex so good to talk to you and yeah we’ll make sure that people know how to to get in on on that um that crew in the show notes and to be
(1:09:38) continued thanks Kelly [Music] there [Music]
