(00:02) we have been duped by feminism sexual Liberation and anti-depressants we have been told that we are powerful and free now as women but we feel tired wired and bitter we’re mostly eating right exercising and meditating wrangling to-do lists and arranging playdates and yet there’s a haunting holess beneath the huge complaint what if I told you that there is a huge Storehouse a reservoir of energy inside of you that has not been tapped that you could feel light and pulsing excited and alive in ways that a wellness lifestyle
(00:49) cannot deliver that you could trust yourself that the world could feel safe and that unexpected and expected Delights could start to illuminate your path no coach therapist doctor or Guru required just you learning to get real present and attentive with you I feel like I’m here to matchmake your inner parts for the greatest love affair ever written I want to help you learn first where you’re buying eggs from the hardware store which is the source of all pain I want to help you master entering through the upset which is the
(01:27) only spiritual practice You’ll Ever Need and to get real comfortable putting on your villain Crown which is in my opinion the key to True power and then you’ll attune to your inner yes so you can live the life defined by the specific pleasure of who you are I am so excited to announce my latest book called The reclaimed woman which is available for pre-order now so if you head to the link in show notes you can learn more about bonuses events and companion offerings and I cannot wait to see your gorgeous face on the
(02:07) [Music] path I’m Dr Kelly Brogan you may know me as a New York Times bestselling author of a book with an exploding pill on the cover Renegade psychiatrist P dancer or honorary member of the disinformation doesn’t what can I say I’m a born provocator I’ve spent most of my recent life exposing deceptions connecting dots and discovering the secret places my inner victim is still waiting to be liberated and now I feel called to help you reclaim all of your parts your health your sexuality your power and your expression so that you can finally
(02:46) truly own yourself I want to ignite in you that inner knowing and the pulsing Vitality that lives beneath your disempowerment disconnection and resentment so that you can audaciously courageously and playfully alchemize your struggle into the specific pleasure of who you are this is Reclamation radio a soulfire production hi everyone and welcome to Reclamation radio I am delighted which is my word of this year and I am feeling that to be in conversation with Kimmy inch who came onto my radar maybe a year or so ago and I was most interested in
(03:32) initially in the fact that she is trained both in somatic therapy and also as a professional Dominatrix and the crossover was familiar to me this kind of you know somatic spiritual crossover from having followed Kazi arban’s work and since that time I have consumed much of Kimmy’s content and I so look forward to availing myself of one of her in-person events and I feel she is one of the most important ambassadors of the potential for all things related to BDSM and specifically the crossover of these kinds of play-based if we can call it
(04:17) that therapies with trauma healing and I just think she’s one of the most important ambassadors her eloquence her ability to frame this multi-dimensional realm in ways that are practical and accessible and inspiring so I’m really really excited to to have you here and to to chat about this oh thank you so much Kelly for that introduction I’m I’m blushing and I don’t do that very often so I appreciate being here and being able to speak to you and your audience so I was saying to you at the beginning of our our call that I’ve really taken
(04:50) my audience on quite a ride over those of who’ve been hanging on to the carpet tassels of this Magic Carpet Ride for the past decade or so potentially even came to me to learn about coming off of psychiatric meds or what it is to you know resolve recidivistic chronic illness and you know here we are probably going to be speaking about like you know the healing potential of spanking today so it’s a deep dive and I am just going to assume that everyone can handle it who is listening I wanted to start though a little bit with a
(05:22) little bit of the basics and you know to frame what we’re going to talk about with an introduction to BDSM right and what it means to you because I think I know that you agree that there is so much misunderstanding out there and this idea of the way that Kink has been appropriated probably you know by I mean who knows if there’s even an agenda behind it you know it’s even in the DSM 5 like it’s considered a perversion through one pathological lens and the potential that these practices and specifically this worldview and this or
(06:00) orientation towards power and influence has for trauma healing and for embodiment I think is like Far and Away you know the most powerful you know that we have available to us now and I am very new you know to this realm and I recognized it immediately you know with all of my work with women in the spaces of sexual abuse histories and you know this experience of themselves is broken and damaged and all of this shame that’s been stuffed that you know Rend ERS them really disempowered dependent and helpless this is a way out so I’d love
(06:35) for you to speak just a little bit about like what BDSM is to you like what is your conceptualization and framework around that and then why you feel that it might be this opportunity for deeper healing right for more than just play and personal expression with a partner but that it actually represents an opportunity to get to know yourself and to integrate and resolve these imprints yeah so what’s really interesting about BDSM is that it’s been around for hundreds or thousands of years I mean you can find about BDSM in tantric
(07:11) scriptures you know these ancient wisdoms that had even referenced these practices and it still blows my mind that after thousands of years it still is so counterculture very underground it’s it’s becoming more illuminated of course but it’s absolutely misunderstood and Carries such a heavy stigma with it and um I believe that it tends to revolve around the way the media has sort of presented the the BDSM world to the mainstream and how it’s been so sensationalized and really kind of when people think BDSM I mean what do you
(07:46) think Kelly like I’m thinking most of the time people are thinking a leather clad [ __ ] abusing a man right you thinking whips and chains bring out the [ __ ] you know like that is what that’s the first thing people start thinking about even to this day and so let’s kind of get oriented around like what is BDSM really and so when you’re talking about Kink and BDSM BDSM Falls underneath the umbrella of Kink so if that’s the case let’s just be clear around the definition of Kink which is borrowed from Gama that I’ve expanded upon and
(08:21) basically means that you or your society that you live in or the culture you grew up in or the religious background you have cons consider some of the things that you’re turned on by to be taboo so if there’s ever been a moment where somebody has been kind of nervous about talking about their desires or scared they’re going to be rejected or judged they they feel like oh this is kind of naughty I don’t know if I could say this out loud those types of things are considered kinky so most of us have something in the back of our minds
(08:52) that’s a little like oh this is a little risque so a lot of us are already kinky now if we were going to dive a bit deeper into that into BDSM it’s broken down in the word it’s bondage and discipline domination and submission and sadism and masochism so basically any roles or activities that fall underneath those six words is considered BDSM but it’s important to let people know that when I say things like sadism and masochism domination and submission all of these sort of things bondage and discipline all of these
(09:25) things are discussed and fully agreed upon and fully consent too between adults who are looking for pleasure and looking for expansion and looking for fun and play so it’s really important to make sure that people understand that that’s part of the package when it comes to BDSM and it’s sort of how I like to think about it it’s almost this agreement of like let’s go into the concepts and themes that are considered uncomfortable like when you think of being tied up or being spanked people don’t necessarily equate that to laying
(09:59) on the beach and having a margarita right like that’s usually kind of considered like an intense interaction it feels like it’s maybe a little more uncomfortable but the beauty about what happens when we go into the uncomfortable is what happens when we come out of the other side of that what happens when we push our bodies to the limits what happens when we expand our our idea of our own identity you know what happens when I agree to enter into a relational Dynamic that’s going to be very counter to everything else that
(10:31) represents in my life and what can I learn from those experiences what does my body how does my body react to it what are the chemicals that get released when I engage in these sort of activities so that’s really what the attraction is to BDSM is that there’s this idea of I can use my own body my own biology and my own relational sort of experiences to expand myself in ways that aren’t possible anywhere else so you brought up the role of Shame and taboo and I know that as a sematic therapist you also have the perspective
(11:05) that there is a physiologic capacity right like your nervous system has to be sufficiently healed enough to be able to hold Sensations like shame which is arguably one of the the most intense of all Sensations that we can experience and you know I call it a shame wall right because it always feels like this this thing we have to scale and then get over and once we do we’re in this like wide open space that we never imagined was was possible there so I’m I’m curious you know do you feel like a lot of the healing power of this practice
(11:39) derives from as you said just sort of owning you know these these seemingly impossible to utter truths about our turn on just having a partner you can actually be real with and honest and and declet these things do you think it’s that do you think it’s reexperiencing intentionally and tionally some of the scenes that might represent our traumas or is it maybe like you know having the Reclamation scene right where like you you know you play a scene where somebody is your abuser and you’re GNA give Your Righteous [ __ ] no get off me kick you
(12:17) know or whatever it is or is it all of the above like do you find that there’s like one magical element that is a part of the Alchemy of turning this shame into to pleasure and freedom yeah thank you for asking I saw a like a Tik Tok video that kind of made me giggle it was a total satire but she was answering questions from her audience and one of the questions was how do I get into the kinky scene and and her answer was like well first start off with having some childhood trauma and then you know and it was just like this joke because there
(12:50) is a speculation that a lot of our desires and our fantasies come from our traumas and you know when you throw the that that t word out there that can create a lot of story for a lot of people’s minds so I want to just let people know that there is no concrete evidence our scientific evidence that supports that our desires and Fantasies necessarily come from trauma it’s definitely possible but it can also come from The Impressions that were made in our lives that maybe wouldn’t be equated as traumatic like things around what
(13:21) were the Impressions I had around sexuality around intimacy around love and relationships as I was growing up and maybe those Impressions you know made some of the eroticized desires you have today so definitely want to put that out there and you know when it comes to BDSM and kink yeah you can’t have these conversations without mentioning shame because that’s going to be a really big part of the package and the shame pieace is actually the part of Kink and BDSM that creates the thrill that creates the juice there’s this
(13:52) quote that I love saying and I feel like it perfectly equates to what we’re talking about John Waters a famous director said that I’m so glad I was born Catholic because sex will always be dirty to me and I love that because he’s acknowledging because of his Catholic background he has shame around his sexual desires as a gay man and he’s not just letting that stand in his way he’s actually embracing it and giving it gratitude that it brings him the electricity and the thrill and the excitement that his sex life brings him
(14:26) because of that so when I talk to people who are interested in exploring the side of themselves I get really curious around like what does keep people from exploring the potential of their bodies and pleasure more usually it does boil down to shame like feeling like they have a lack of permission from themselves and their partners and it’s like the sort of like cocktail around what kind of creates the the fire and the juice of it paired with like sort of the feelings of unfulfillment so when I’m working with clients it’s really
(14:57) important to sort of say this is really normal we grew up in a society where we are taught in sex education not to get pregnant not to get usds we don’t really talk about like why does this turn you on and what’s the story behind that we don’t want to dig deeper into understanding people’s psyche so if we can at least get to the point of saying like part of the thrill of your fantasies and your desires the shame is actually kind of Fanning those Flames a little bit is there a way that we can make peace with that part of ourselves
(15:26) is there a way that we can make friends with our shame and Embrace a little part of it so it’s not standing in our way but it’s actually catapulting us into a deeper sense of intensity and excitement during our our interactions with our partners so depending on the person giving yourself an opportunity to feel into you know what was your programming and your conditioning and not necessarily trying to eradicate it but saying like well this is a part of what I was given and taught you know shame is not an authentic human emotion it’s
(15:57) taught and it’s learned so I learned this I was programmed with this with that Consciousness now I can maybe move forward and create the sex life and the life of my dreams so yeah it’s all about boiling down to Consciousness and giving ourselves a little compassion and love for the programming and conditioning we’ve received and being able to turn that into something that’s even more pleasurable you mentioned a a word that I have come to use in my daily vernacular now because it seems so important which is permission right and
(16:28) this idea of their permission field and what is it to actually opt in to a cultural milia like you know the conscious Kink World offers if you want to refer to it as that where there is a huge permission field right where there’s almost like an anything goes and fundamentally a curiosity and you know in in all of my teaching I’ve I’ve witnessed you know over all these years when it comes to health and chronic illness that curiosity is that antidote to the victim conscious ious of enduring you know embodied disempowerment and so
(17:04) the permission field I experience as being embedded in this culture and then probably seized on the individual level in certain Dynamics and Partnerships and settings that are intentionally created so I wonder I’m like an examples girl I love to learn from examples and I wonder if you could share you know an example of like a scene or two where somebody you know a client or a friend or you personally worked on something that was formerly a source of this shame that they didn’t feel they had permission maybe even to speak about let alone
(17:41) interact with intentionally like what’s an example of how that could be alchemized through this practice yeah thank you for asking I have one particular client story that I would love to share and also I’ll even say you know I do these 4-day events with people and essentially you know I’m inviting people to have an experience but I’m also giving them permission to just feel their sexual energy to feel their arousal I remember so often in my classes you know people will raise their hand and like what do I do if I start
(18:12) feeling aroused especially the men like what if I start getting aroused what if I start getting you know erected because of this and I’m like it’s okay you know it’s about keeping it to your own self- responsibility and not putting that on anyone else but just something as minute as feeling arousal in your body some people feel really like nervous and scared about even having arousal so like it it can come to that like sort of level of things and what’s really sad is who the [ __ ] am I to give permission to
(18:41) anyone right like really um but that’s basically what those 4 day weekends are is like telling people like listen you already are doing this like most of us are kind of playing around with our sexualities and a lot of different ways this is just some tools and a safe space for you to really dive deeper into stuff that you’re already doing you’re already fantasizing you’re already having sex you’re already kind of you know watching the the Kink talk videos you’re already doing these things this is a a safe space for you to go deeper into that one
(19:12) of the most incredible clients that I’ve ever worked with he was born in Egypt he was raised in a Muslim background he eventually came to America to become a surgeon he was in an arranged marriage for 10 years completely sexless and since he was a child he had these these really intense fantasies that focused around him being kidnapped by powerful women he would be taken to their Lair he would be tied up he would be you know verbally abused and humiliated by them and he would be forced to do their bidding like that was his fantasy as
(19:45) long as he could remember as a child and when he came to me he was pretty much on the brink of being like not interested in being alive anymore like he was really like this I don’t get the point of being alive I I’m not I don’t have pleasure I’ve been doing everything I’ve been told to do by my my parents and my culture I’m so unhappy so he came to me in that state and we started working through his shame we started to kind of uncover what the meaning of these fantasies could be but ultimately the focus of the work was let’s cocreate
(20:17) your lifelong fantasy that you’ve always been thinking about since you were a little boy so with a lot of work and a lot of you know trust building and things like that we were able to create his life liong fantasy and he was given an experience that I guided him through of this fantasy so how did that look oh so you I’m like I’m gonna let’s play the video no I’m just kidding I don’t have a video love that like I don’t know if I can play that here so what that looked like is that we went through a communication tool that I have called
(20:50) the king checklist which went through the specific activities he was available for and what he was not available for that also included what sort of language was acceptable for his scene what was the energy like for his scene for example there was an energy of his scene that wasn’t all hardcore and strict and heavy there was parts that were supposed to be playful and koi and sensual essentially he wanted me to recreate that he was being kidnapped and brought into my Lair and what I would be doing is I would be taunting him and teasing
(21:20) him and not allowing him to have you know his release that he wanted to have so I would tease his body with feathers would spank his bottom I would call him names I would do all of these things that he had been fantasizing about for years and at the end of the fantasy we were having some after care which is absolutely necessary and he was sort of getting these downloads because he was in this expanded state for a couple of hours and I will talk a little bit more of that in a moment but he was in what we call Subspace and during his coming
(21:55) down of that space some downloads from a higher source was coming through him and he said wowow I have realized that through this experience I have felt so met and so seen and so fully held in this desire that I’m seeing now very clearly that I created this desire as a child to help lessen the pain of the victimhood I felt in my own life to actually recognize that I was not living the life that I wanted that I was being forced to do things I didn’t want to do and how smart was it of my boss body to self-protect and create this fantasy
(22:32) that would be circled around what was happening in my life but being done in a way that felt pleasurable and erotic and arousing for me and so I asked him I’m like what would it be like to do this again but how about this time you ask for everything you want so weeks later we did the scene again and he asked me to do everything that happened in the scene so he really was stepping into his empowerment and saying like I want you to tie me up I want you to spank me I want you to tease me I want you to blindfold me like every single thing he
(23:06) asked for I met him with my full presence and my full love and my full attention so after that scene you know as he’s coming down from that experience he was like oh my gosh if I can ask for what I want here why can’t I ask for what I want everywhere like why am I waiting and and and being pushed along this life by other people expectations like I know what I want I need to start asking for it I need to start stepping into like my desires more so what happened after that was you know this is a six-month program we were doing and by
(23:41) the end of the six months he was a completely different human he was so happy to be alive he actually ended up leaving that sexless marriage and they were both very happy about it because it was an arranged marriage and he started meeting people in the Kink lifestyle he started exploring his submissive side more his dominant side more you know and for our very last closing scene he actually dominated one of my assistants and he was able to truly step into his power and curate a really beautiful experience for her that he was so
(24:10) excited about so he went through this complete evolution of you know being a victim of his own life that he was eroticizing in his his kinky fantasies and stepping into his power and and basically deciding to live a life of choice and pleasure so that’s you know that was the the story with him and how it’s so important to remember that sometimes our fantasies can be doorways into understanding ourselves better and looking at maybe there’s parts of our lives that have gone unconscious that we’ve eroticized that if we can have it
(24:40) fully met and loved in a safe space that maybe we can bring what we create in the bedroom all that pleasure and excitement and passion we can bring that into the rest of our lives we can bring that into our work we can bring that to the park we can bring that with our our families and we can bring that aliveness anywhere so sometimes people just need to have a safe space and permission to actually have it and really be met in it so that they know that they have access to it anytime they want H I feel so lit up by
(25:10) everything you just said because it’s it’s this Confluence of so many variables that have been held disperate right if if we know that we are disconnected from our erotic selves from very early on chiefly through social conditioning around shame right so all of this vital force energy is put in into the catacombs how do we go about you know reconnecting and what you’re saying is you look at what turns you on and maybe even the most secret turn on right like the most hidden turn on the one that you don’t feel at Liberty
(25:44) perhaps to share but maybe one that’s been with you maybe it’s your dreams and Fantasies you’ve had since you were like six right that there’s more to that than just some random you know sort of spark that’s flying around in inside of you that it’s actually a specifically eroticized hurt right specifically eroticized pain and that you have this opportunity to alchemize that and bring intentional choice to that which was of course you know unintentionally endured or tolerated or experienced and maybe even repressed and I mean the experience
(26:21) of this man stepping into his masculine claim it’s it’s so you you can feel it I mean in this in this story I’m going to pause here for a quick second if you are into the topic of manwoman relating polarity and what the Reclamation of Eros has to do with holistic health then I invite you to check out and download my free ebook on the subject at the link below and to also check out a Blog I wrote that goes deeper into the subject of BDSM some of the science supporting it and why these reframes and tools may be exactly what
(26:57) the world needs to move out of confusion resentment and victimhood and into personal empowerment and pleasure hope that helps I want to talk a little bit about power and you know you’ve touched on it obviously even in his role transitioning from you know what might be characterized as a submissive to you know a more a dominant role in that final scene and I know that you speak to this phrase I really love called erotic leadership and specifically you talk about leader and follower rather than not maybe rather but maybe above and
(27:35) beyond the Dom sub dynamics that are more conventionally touted by those in the field so I want to talk a little bit about first like what are the characteristics of the leader of the dominant and is this something that you feel is like a role that you’re destined to play in your erotic life or is it just you know something you step into on a Wednesday how do you how do you sort of see it yes it’s like yes and yes right no but when it comes to the leader follower yeah you know it’s a terminology that I started coining a
(28:13) couple like maybe 10 years ago and um at first it was sort of a broader sense of what an energy Dynamic could look like between people stepping into a a power Dynamic so we’re thinking about which way is the energy moving between people as they’re in a in a play session together and what came up was this idea of leader and follower being more collaborative and co-creative as opposed to Dom sub which tends to feel very hierarchical and wanting to like really embrace the co-creative aspect of what this erotic encounter can look like so
(28:45) when I work with people interested in stepping into their erotic leadership we start sort of teasing out what are the principles and qualities of a true erotic leader and some of them might be surprising for you and and your listeners but basically the list is you know presence authenticity heart surrender creativity Attunement collaboration empowerment and accountability and when you are able to bring these qualities into your erotic leadership whether that’s in the bedroom or outside of the bedroom what you’re
(29:18) doing is you’re really being with what is real and what is instead of being in this sense of like control and having an agenda so so often when I’m working with people interested in stepping into their dominance they have this idea that they need to control the other person and there’s a lot of freaking codependency happening in these DS which means dominant submissive relationships which are fine if it’s conscious that’s awesome like I’m all I’m all for it but if it’s unconscious and we’re operating from a place of you know not really our
(29:49) pleasure but our trauma then I get curious around like you know how do we create more choice and elevation in these Dynamics because I want to move from codep dependent to co-creative and when I’m stepping into erotic leadership with my partner who’s doing a followership with me we’re creating a space like a dance like in partner dancing like salsa and Tango there’s always a leader there’s always a follower but both are needed to create the dance and both can be masterful in their own way often I have a lot of
(30:19) people who prefer more of the submissive position and they’re like uh I can’t get my partner to step into dominance and I really want my husband or my wife to dominate me and doesn’t seem like they’re into it and I’m like well what kind of happens in those Dynamics is if there’s a codependency aspect happening where you’re putting your pleasure and your enjoyment all on your partner that can feel like a lot of weight of responsibility so the idea is like how do we invite each other into stepping into something creative where it’s not
(30:49) going to be all on you honey I’m not saying like you need to take me through this whole experience like I really want to help us both win and I want to sit down and have a conversation to talk about our desires and our boundaries so that we can figure out like where do we get to play in that so erotic leadership for me you know extends beyond the bedroom it really goes into all areas of life and I want to just add that I’ve noticed when people have been further along their healing journey and they’ve done a lot of inner work on themselves
(31:17) both erotically and beyond that I’ve noticed that people tend to feel more comfortable in the sort of switchy area like they can feel comfortable stepping into leadership but they can also also feel comfortable stepping into their submissiveness I get very worried if a dominant person is like I would never ever be submissive and I’m like yeah but you want your partner to like can you feel there’s a sense of judgment around that and can you feel how you almost need your partner to be submissive for you so you can feel powerful like you
(31:50) actually need your partner in order to step into that role so being really conscious around the codependency and also bringing into the awareness being an erotic leader also requires heart and surrender and Attunement and all of these qualities that really enrich both parties experiences yes and I’ve heard you say that you know that’s where and how in the dominant role someone can exercise influence you know rather than control rather than it coming from this of course this place of of fear and attachment to a certain kind of
(32:24) outcome yeah it’s interesting you know people get in this kind kind of agenda and they’re like oh like I’m going to spank you and I’m going to do this but what happens if your partner you know starts crying in the middle of the scene they’re they’re having an emotional release are you able to be with them in that moment what happens you know if you start feeling your own emotion do you push that aside or do you become this like there’s this image in my mind of this like male stoic statue like kind of guy who’s like you know doing things to
(32:53) like you know very much doing on to others but not really being affected by anything that’s happening you know what I mean like what a waste like what a waste of opportunity when you can really have a really deep Connection in depth and intimacy with your partner because as the leader there your partner is only going to go as far as you’re going to go and I feel like there’s nothing sadder than watching a leader that limits the potential of an erotic experience because of their own limitations because of their own unconscious Hang-Ups and
(33:21) things that are going on for themselves so it’s important when you’re thinking about erotic leadership is like where are my blind spots where are my limit ations and where is my glass ceiling and how do I break through those things so that I can have more pleasure more depth and more intimacy for me and my partner it’s really amazing like it all starts with you and how you want to create you know this erotic experience and how it can kind of translate into the rest of your life I’ve heard you speak about this idea of the Dom acting as almost
(33:50) like a projection of the submissives Consciousness right like almost as if the Dom is the higher self perhaps that is right you know like spanking the the submissive for certain kinds of you know patterns that are just no longer serving that person and obviously in that framework this isn’t the Dom exercising you know his or her metabolized need for sadism and overt control it’s a service and I think that this is one of the more challenging ideas for many of us to wrap our minds around is how the follower role or the submissive role is one that
(34:32) holds complimentary influence and power and potentially even is more directive right paradoxically in ways so I think it would be helpful for us to sort of better unpack like this follower role the submissive role and and I’ve learned you know I’ve been taught by om rupani yeah and he talks about how a woman who wants to submit right so a woman who is in that position is probably the hardest for society to swallow at this point that that could be such a desire that a woman owns particularly in the current moment and you know I understand that
(35:11) and I think many are coming to understand that this maybe a native and you know David daa teaches about like the feminine Essence and you know could be a native longing and yearning however the idea that the submissive or the follower has this kind of power and influence I think is is tough for some of us so I’d love to hear a little bit about that role and and what you’ve seen in that position yeah thank you so much for speaking to that you know it’s interesting there are some thought leaders in this Arena that are very um
(35:42) rigid around feeling that if you’re in dominance that makes you automatically in your masculinity and if you’re submissive that makes you automatically in your femininity and I am here to challenge that thought because I don’t think that there is a specific energy around what dominance and submission can look like like I have as a woman dominatrix that for the last 20 years I have definitely brought in my form of leadership in dominance that both had flavors of masculinity and femininity and same with my partners and what gets
(36:11) really freaking cool is when you’re in that erotic dance with someone and sometimes the lines get a little blurred around like wait wait wait who’s leading now wait wait who’s who’s following now like it can get when you’re in so in deeply in flow and enthralled in the moment with someone there can be feelings of like the energy is kind of moving fluidly and it’s not necessarily just always going in This One Direction because so often in leadership people think I’m supposed to do a bunch of stuff to my partner but I get more
(36:39) interested in how do I help my follower feel themselves more how do I help my partner remember who they really are how do I help get them more acquainted with their their own self-love and help them to remember the truth and and things of that nature so when I’m thinking about the follower position in the idea of surrender and of an opening and availability of being able to receive but also being able to step into the power of trust this is a really important aspect of creating the life of your dreams because if you don’t trust
(37:13) yourself it’s going to be really hard to receive life’s abundances so when we think about the follower stepping into a state of submissiveness I also think about we can change those words up like I love to use another polarity dynamic like artist and Muse the Dom is the artist the follower is the muse the follower is constantly an inspiration source for the creative abilities of the dominant of the leader like that’s not a passive position that you can be in you’re actually inspiring the beauty of the experience and and the imagination
(37:47) of both you and your partner there’s all kinds of polarity dynamics that can be brought in so in chantra we talk about atavism and atavism is that sort of polarity where we could say you know I’m going to step into the essence of the Moon and you’re going to step into the essence of the Sun so I’m going to be the void and you’re going to be the essence of everything and what does that look like when we start playing together what does it look like if you’re you know the antalope and I’m the tiger like what does that mean to you and like
(38:16) really getting expanded on what these Dynamics and and things can look like because once you really start tapping into these spirit animals and these other like maybe goddess and God sort of archetypes and all these sort of things that are available you start to notice like wow how am I limiting myself in my own identity and how I react with and how do I interact with my own family with my own relationships with my own career and in the world because I can expand on that so much bigger and it’s so important to remember that if we keep
(38:47) expanding on these limited ideas of what those power dynamics can look like we can really step into more of what we are capable of creating in our lives essentially so I I feel like a lot of people listening might imagine that they need like a theatric degree you know or that they need to be like super disinhibited and creative and spontaneous to even imagine architecting this kind of a scene and I know from personal experience that that level of inhibition can be it can take years to unpack because the roots are so deep as
(39:27) we were talking about you know in in these installed parameters you know from our childhood so I wonder if in your experience with people and and couples who are just beginning to explore these polarity Dynamics and I so appreciate that artist and Muse that is that’s really profound because I was thinking like oh there’s the one expressing and there’s the one acting and and that’s what it is it’s it’s the most foundational complimentarity around creative expression and embodiment it’s it’s really beautiful so you know couples who
(39:59) are just thinking about dipping a toe in right like what what do you think is the easiest point of entry if they don’t feel particularly the dominant or the leader or the artist feel ready to tap into that spontaneous flow right like eventually it will likely come and that is the you know that’s the the holy land of this Subspace and that kind of Flow State right for for both Partners in the beginning though like what is a way to just begin to play with these polarities in Dynamic do you think yeah thank you
(40:33) for asking because I definitely don’t want people to think it has to look a certain kind of way that’s the idea is like saying you know how do we kind of expand on what we’ve been shown on television of what it’s supposed to look like and really make it our own and make it feel really resonant and exciting for us so there’s an invitation to kind of expand on it and also to remember you know when we’re we’re we’re thinking about things like vanilla sex for example you know I’m not here to yuck anything any anybody’s desires around
(41:01) vanilla but what I think of vanilla sex is this idea that it’s functional so we’re we are sometimes using our sex like we use fast food like we’re basically saying like oh I I’m horny so I’m GNA grab my vibrator and give myself three minutes to have an orgasm or oh I feel like you know having a quicky which is great not I’m not poo pooing quickies but this idea that you know functional sex whether it’s to have a baby or have have an orgasm it’s very limited and it doesn’t offer itself an opportunity for being able to be explorative so the idea
(41:34) first is like just feel into like what would it mean to be a little explorative with your own sexuality and really starting small and thinking about like what are some of the things that I find exciting and and turn me on already like I’m going to be sharing with you the Kink checklist which is a free list that you can go through to see what are some of the possibilities which that’s all it is it’s just an invitation to possibilities of how you can explore with your partner and you can go through this list even by yourself and start
(42:05) feeling into your body around does this feel curious and interesting and intriguing to me is this like a hell no is this making my lady parts are our manly Parts tingle is this like you know um lighting me up inside or making me shut down like and getting really curious I love that you said earlier on the call like you know Cur curiosity is such an antidote to so many things so bringing in that Curiosity and if you do have an a partner to explore with going through the king checklist with them and and feeling into
(42:34) like where are our [ __ ] yeses and where are our Mayes and where are our hell knows and and before we even act out anything or put anything into action what if we just like laid down together and after we know sort of what the parameters are what if we just started talking and using our our imagination while we hold each other like what if I were to you know lay down with you Kelly and say like you know BAS on this list that we went through I’m imagining that I’m leading you through a dark hallway with all these candles lit up I’m
(43:04) wearing this like really beautiful power suit and you’re in this beautiful white lingerie and I lead you into this room filled with candles and mirrors there’s mirrors circulating you everywhere that you look and I ask you to slowly Andress in front of me so I can see just how beautiful you are but every time you take off an article of clothing I want you to tell me what it represents what is something that could be standing in the way and you can be sitting there laying with me and saying like oh I’m loving this this is expanding me oh I
(43:31) don’t like this idea of mirrors that makes me feel a little shy and nervous and what we’re doing is we’re creating and painting an a possible experience without having to put anything into action and noticing what happens in our bodies like actually giving our bodies an opportunity to feel into is this something that’s expanding me or is this something that’s shedding me down and figuring out what is the pinky toe in the shallow end of the pool like what does it look like because so often we get so excited we want to like just jump
(44:00) in and you’re already like making love with your partner and you’re like oh you know what I’m just going to pull her hair and call her dirty [ __ ] like I I’m just feeling it and next thing you know she’s crying and she’s like how could you you know and these things happen all the time and it’s okay it’s healthy to have these desires but highly recommend not springing it on your partner and instead being like hey I would love to set up a sexy date with you I would love to like have a a date where we’re going
(44:27) to have a nice dinner together we’re going to get dressed up and we’re just going to have conversation around what what turns us on because I’m interested in maybe expanding some stuff with you I’m interested and having more depth and intimacy with you and creating an invitation so you and them can be mentally prepared for the conversation and start getting an understanding of like okay what what can we do is there anything we want to create together where’s our starting point and how do we start small and maybe you know not try
(44:54) to jump into the deep end and start in a way that we can both sort of to digest the situation and feel like our bodies are are are aligned with everything that we want to try so yeah starting small using tools like the king checklist having lots of conversations and allowing yourself giving yourself permission to play in the realm of possibility and and and having some fun with it and what I love in addition to the the checklist which I have from you and is fantastic and it’s just such a fun convers I mean what else is more
(45:25) interesting to talk about you know with somebody and of course as you mentioned earlier like this is a conversation we should be encouraged to have with our very first partner ever in our lives and many of us are probably well into you know our 40s or whatever encountering this for the for the first time but it’s sort of like a self exploration self-inquiry self- interrogation tool but then there’s also this idea of like the ongoing lived experience of consent right where where if something is or isn’t working for you if there’s
(46:00) something unexpected that arises there is a say for it an opt out clause there is a way to continue to you know expand on the awareness of what creates safety right so it’s it’s an ongoing communication and that’s what I found is like the level of communication that I witness in this community I mean it’s it’s just unparalleled I mean most most coupl don’t speak about the details of their sexual experience until and if there’s a problem right it’s not intentional and conscious and it’s certainly not framed as something
(46:38) enjoyable fun or you know pleasure expanding you’re right I mean the point of this is to I mean the more articles I read around people feeling lonier than ever and feeling disconnected than ever and this longing of wanting depth and intimacy and and connection which all humans really want this idea of exploring our eroticism is like really an opportunity to know ourselves better we so often are waiting for the Mr Right and Mrs W to show up on our doorsteps that are finally going to feel understood and seen and we don’t put any
(47:09) effort and energy into really understanding ourselves better and understanding of like oh I really want to threesome but I wonder why like why do why am I attracted to this idea of threesome because it might be different from one to another person like why am I interested in the the things that I’m interested in or why have I not given myself an opportunity to explore in this in this world because often times you know people are doing all of this you know personal development work and they usually leave their sexuality for last
(47:38) if they ever get to it at all and that is truly the core of who we are so it’s an invitation of like understanding and knowing yourself and having that deep connection and intimacy with yourself first so you can open to the potential abundance of the universe of having partners and relationships that can also share depth and intimacy with you but a reminder that it really does start with you and if you’re not willing to go there with yourself then how do you expect to go there with anyone else so yeah this is about like really
(48:08) understanding you and knowing thyself and and once you have that understanding so much is possible from that place absolutely I mean it’s it’s sort of the the best and the worst news is that it starts with you I mean I remember when I first started working with my erotic coach Whitney this idea of of slowing down with my self-pleasure to the extent that my sessions with myself would literally just involve like 10 minutes which felt like an eternity of asking my body what she wants you know like asking myself know what is wanted here and
(48:46) eliminating you know genital touch and orgasm and just sort of focusing on like touching my legs or my arms or my hair or like do I want to rub my neck and that level of slowness is I think part of what’s necessary to stop what you’re calling fast food you know sex and impulses but with ourselves it’s like you know historically in self-pleasuring I would like put an orgasm on me you know it’s like she calls like just putting sex on someone putting pleasure on someone but we do it first to ourselves if we don’t have that kind of
(49:21) intentional slow conscious you know spacious experience of the here and now and and that’s where I think your training in sematic therapy I mean it’s just the perfect marriage of this work with that right because I don’t know how possible like I was saying it could be to even slow down to that extent until and if you have an understanding that that is you know what your nervous system is longing for and asking for is that level of you know present Attunement you know so so what do you see as being some of the somatic maybe
(49:59) even neurophysiologic barriers to really attuning to that extent and coming into an awareness of realtime pleasure that isn’t like I’m going into this scene and I’m going to do this and that to her and he’s going to do this and that to me right because I imagine there’s a lot of performativity that can show up in this culture where people miss the yield that’s otherwise available in the somatic healing realm so do you think there’s sort of in order of operations like people should do a certain you know level of somatic healing before they
(50:33) engage in this or do you think it’s sort of all Blended together I imagine there’s a ceiling for some people on like how much they can actually be present to this kind of work absolutely you know these are great questions and it’s so I think a great reminder that you shared working with your own coach is like reminding people this is not a journey you have to do alone you know like really reminding people that so often especially with our sexuality you know behind closed doors with the lights off you know that’s kind of the idea
(51:02) with a lot of the ways we were exploring our own bodies and our own pleasure uh when we were developing into adulthood and now as resourced adults there are so many resources and so many ways of getting support through this journey so I would probably start off by considering you know as you’re educating yourself through you know online courses or through books or or whatnot actually considering having a mentor having a coach having a therapist and someone that can really be your mirror and someone who can be like your safe
(51:35) Sanctuary place if things start to feel a little scary or or overwhelming because you know once we start exploring our sexuality all kinds of things can start to unsurfaced to have a support system in place that isn’t necessarily your partner so that you have an objective person that can help guide you through this journey of the erotic so really thinking about it in those terms and you know as things like you know these medicine Journeys are getting more and more popular MDMA cybin things like that people are looking for ways of creating
(52:10) these you know Altered States Of Consciousness which are really really powerful I think it’s so amazing the way MDMA and Sil cybin has opened doors for people to experience these expansive states where they’re interrupting patterns and they’re able to shift perspectives on on their lives and feel a sense of Oneness and unconditional love but I also think it’s really really important to open your own doors and so when you’re playing in the realm of the erotic this is an opportunity for you to start building towards a place of having
(52:41) a self- trust through communication through vulnerability and through understanding your own resiliency and being able to expand into deeper places of pleasure that are eventually going to lead you to these Altered States and expanded states of consciousness that are going to help you sort of ascertain you know looking at life in a different point of view and being able to be bigger and and have more capacity to handle life’s challenges and obstacles and also be able to tap you into your creativity you know a t secret that not
(53:14) everyone knows is that our sexuality is closely linked with our creativity and so if we’re able to access some fluidity and our sexuality and feel like we’re in healthy alignment with it then we have an abundance of creativity that we access to and that can be really exciting because you know if we have creativity we have a a lot of ability to create Solutions in all areas of our lives so just to you know that was kind of an expanded answer but feeling into getting the support that you need for this journey and also holding the
(53:45) understanding that it takes you know one step at a time and go slow like your coach had mentioned to you going slow is so important really feeling your body somatically feeling into what is the information my body body’s giving me because my body doesn’t lie the brain sure as hell does but my body doesn’t so what’s coming up as I’m going on this journey making sure I have support as I do and knowing that there’s a potential for you know down the road it could be um weeks months or years but there is a potential down the road of creating
(54:16) expanded states where you’re you know essentially being able to feel like people feel on MDMA and feel like uh people on psilocybin and and things of that nature but without having any outside influence which just basically connects you to the understanding that and the truth that you have everything you need already inside of you so if you remember that and and you have the support that you need um have compassion go slow and yeah just take care of yourself on this journey but it is a noble hero’s journey and I’m excited for
(54:47) those that are embarking on it I love that a no goal Heroes Journey that’s so good I want to ask one final question Kimmy just to tag on to what you were yes I will spank you Kelly okay okay perfect that’s like literally what I’m about to ask you I want ask about your spanking sisters because I heard you talk about it in an interview and I think it’s such an important point because obviously people think of you know sexual pleasure and sex play and you know that it’s like fun and maybe arousing but again I think because of
(55:23) your background in somatics you bring an understanding a deeper understanding of how it could be that impact play actually influences your level of Consciousness such that you can you know transform transmute discharge release emotional energy through impact play like why would that ever be possible right that that you would feel in a way and like literally have a girlfriend come over and spank your ass with the intention of helping you regulate what is that right like I think most people have never heard of that the the moment
(55:57) I heard that phrase from you I was like this is this is what people are missing about this cultural phenomenon and what its potential holds for the collective when it comes to this kind of embodiment yes thank you for bringing that up because so often you’re right people think I guess if I’m engaging in this sort of interaction the erotic means that it’s has to be sexual there has to be a level of attracted to each other and that’s nice that can be icing on your cake but that’s not the C right and the idea that you can you know I tell
(56:30) people jokingly like you know what you’re sitting on all like the doorway to your pleasure and expansion like you’re literally sitting on it right now and they’re like what you mean the chair and I’m like no your ass and um and they’re like okay what do you mean and so when we talk about engaging in any sort of kinky or BDSM activity I really wanted people to remember that everything’s on a spectrum so things can be done in a really intense hardcore sort of way and things can be done really light and sensual and playful so
(57:01) once we understand everything is on a spectrum from Impact play to dirty talk to bondage to whatever that people start to understand like oh okay so things don’t necessarily have to be super painful and so what we can use impact play for is we could go beyond the sort of cliche traditional way that people use it you know mostly as a an neurotic punishment or as a way of exhibiting dominance over another person we can actually use it in this very platonic way if I’m having a stressful day and it’s just been a rough one and I just
(57:32) feel like I’m at my wit’s ends I will call one of my home girls my spanking sisters they’re attractive amazing beautiful people but there’s not an a sexual Dynamic happening between us and they will come over and they will give me a good ass spanking and what they’re helping me do and what I help my clients to feel when I do impact play with them is I help them move the energy from their heads into to their bodies and I use impact play as a way of moving energy in the body Awakening the senses creating more connection with our own
(58:05) bodies sometimes it helps to release emotions and yes you know it’s not always about the pain because people don’t always understand why would you want to feel any kind of pain it doesn’t have to feel painful but if it were to have some level of pain or intensity what’s happening is that your body is starting to release chemicals right you know this like releasing the adrenaline and you know a serotonin and these different sort of chemicals that helps to synthesize what’s happening through the the spanking that’s creating more of
(58:34) an altered state it’s creating more of an expanded state for someone so yeah as I’m spanking or as I’m being spanked I’m thinking about how do I awake in the body how do I even maybe access the different chakra points in the body if I’m spanking someone’s B bottom that is basically in Tantra accessing their root chakra which is connected to their wealth their security their trust and and stability and all of those sort of things so I might say you know my hands and my arms are an extension of my heart which is my fourth chakra so as I’m
(59:07) spanking you I’m spanking you with my heart and as I’m spanking your butt I’m actually Awakening and opening this chakra around your wealth around your stability around your security around your trust so that you can have more of what you want in life and we could even use it as a manifestation tool to call in what you want more of in this world and that makes it so much fun for people to recognize that it doesn’t have to be this like bend over [ __ ] like it can actually be this experience of moving energy in the body helping to release
(59:39) emotions helping to feel more aliveness in the body and yeah you know because of the close proximity that the butex has to the genitals sure it can bring energy down there it can bring sensitivity down there so if you wanted to create some arousal and maybe even bring your partner to climax there could be an easier out to doing doing that because it’s you know Awakening everything in the nether regions but yeah there’s so much potential and in just something so simple as spanking and when I introduce that to my clients you know especially
(1:00:08) the female clients that I have they’re like wow the only time I’ve ever been spanked is when I was in doggy style and and the guy behind me was like who’s your daddy and this is like a completely different way of looking at spanking that I didn’t even know is possible and I’m like I know and anything is possible like listen I love fast food but I don’t want to live off of fast food I mean you know like you deserve the 10 course meal you deserve the three Michelin star restaurant like you guys deserve that and like I’m just giving some examples
(1:00:37) that everything that you’re seeing about sexuality and especially kink in the media is so limited what you can decide for yourself and what you can create for yourself is really skies the limit and it’s just about your own imagination so think bigger like stop playing small and give yourself permission to really expand into your full potential because that’s what this life is about being your full potential so anyway I’ll get off my Soap Box oh stay on it girl I love it and I I want to thank you truly for expanding the permission field for
(1:01:09) all of us so much of what you bring to bear and also just your energy it it legitimizes I think what might have otherwise you know rested in these these very darkened spaces you know in our culture our shared culture you know I’m even thinking as you’re saying that in my psychiatric training it was a part of very conventional like cognitive behavioral therapy you know to that a a patient would like have a rubber band on their wrist and snap the rubber band if they were having repetitive thoughts like with their OCD diagnosis or
(1:01:41) whatever and so you know do we really want these embodiment tools to live in the The Guild of of Psychiatry and these like distorted and twisted and inverted ways or do we want to engage you know what is what it is our potential as you’re saying intentionally consciously and because the path is already well trotten right like I’m coming into this decades after you have already been exploring and so many others have and there is a deep understanding of what is available here and you know the opportunity my intention is to is to
(1:02:17) just participate in that permission field to say like yes this is this is cool this is okay this is like actually really powerful and the characterization of it through the mainstream I think actually is agenda driven of course I’m always in the end the conspiracy theorist right so I think that there’s more to it and I think the fact that we’re in a Zeitgeist right now of interest in your work and what it is that that you have been tapped into for so long for me gives me tremendous hope so thank you so much for this we’ll make
(1:02:49) sure that everybody has the link to the checklist to begin to yeah engage that self- inquiry and I cannot wait to meet you a thank you sister thank you for helping to spread the truth and and the word and more pleasure in this world I appreciate you and thank you for letting me be here
