(00:02) we have been duped by feminism sexual Liberation and anti-depressants we have been told that we are powerful and free now as women but we feel tired wired and bitter we’re mostly eating right exercising and meditating wrangling to-do lists and arranging playdates and yet there’s a haunting holess beneath the huge complaint what if I told you that there is a huge Storehouse a reservoir of energy inside of you that has not been tapped that you could feel light and pulsing excited and alive in ways that a wellness lifestyle
(00:49) cannot deliver that you could trust yourself that the world could feel safe and that unexpected and expected Delights could start to illuminate your path no coach therapist doctor or Guru required just you learning to get real present and attentive with you I feel like I’m here to matchmake your inner parts for the greatest love affair ever written I want to help you learn first where you’re buying eggs from the hardware store which is the source of all pain I want to help you master entering through the upset which is the
(01:27) only spiritual practice You’ll Ever Need and to get real comfortable putting on your villain Crown which is in my opinion the key to True power and then you’ll attune to your inner yes so you can live the life defined by the specific pleasure of who you are I am so excited to announce my latest book called The reclaimed woman which is available for pre-order now so if you head to the link in show notes you can learn more about bonuses events and companion offerings and I cannot wait to see your gorgeous face on the
(02:07) [Music] path I’m Dr Kelly Brogan you may know me as a New York Times bestselling author of a book with an exploding pill on the cover Renegade psychiatrist P dancer or honorary member of the disinformation doesn’t what can I say I’m a born provocator I’ve spent most of my recent life exposing deceptions connecting dots and discovering the secret places my inner victim is still waiting to be liberated and now I feel called to help you reclaim all of your parts your health your sexuality your power and your expression so that you can finally
(02:46) truly own yourself I want to ignite in you that inner knowing and the pulsing Vitality that lives beneath your disempowerment disconnection and resentment so that you can audaciously courageously and playfully alchemize your struggle into the specific pleasure of who you are this is Reclamation radio a soulfire production hi and welcome back to Reclamation radio I am Dr Kelly brogen and I am here with my friend Soul Sister Ally Community facilitator and VMR partner I mean I don’t know what else to call you it’s a domestic partnership
(03:29) extraordinaire Jamie Davidson and we are going to get real about her journey and her experience in the trenches of the transformation of victim Consciousness because she has more experience than anyone I know in this realm and approaches it from a very different energy than I do and so I’ve had the pleasure over these many years that we’ve worked together and collaborated to understand the beautiful complimentarity that we offer energetically in the engagement of this very archetypal process of individuation
(04:09) and I’m super excited to be chatting with you Jamie yay me too I love this conversation so I was with my daughters attempting to brainwash them recently and I was showing them a couple of videos and then I went onto our outcomes page and there was some specific video I wanted to find and when we got to the page we’re all looking at the computer and my youngest Saidi want to watch that video Jam’s video and so we clicked on your video and the three of us watched your testimonial video from it must have been back in
(04:47) 2016 I’m guessing right something like that and you know in the video you talk about your experience with sugar and your relationship to self- nurturing and ideas of sickness and stories that you were telling yourself and it was extraordinary to watch because you are still the same woman on so many levels and in so many ways and energetically you’re Jamie right and the Jamie that I know today and that I you know experience life with and walk this path with is it’s like Russian dolls it’s like now you’re the outer doll right
(05:30) like and We Were Somehow seeing this like embryonic version of you that has now like in so many dimensions matured into self-possession and depth and complexity and nuance and like the richness of you it’s almost like I watched you like a Chia Pet or something like just like grow into more Unice and it was really really fascinating to watch that that flashback that throwback as it is to watch my own videos you know from five or so years ago and so I’d love to just start with your story as you would tell it now because I know
(06:07) that our stories evolve and change as we decide to inhabit like different perspectives around what is happening so I’d love to just yeah start with your story from your Vantage Point now in 2023 yeah wow I haven’t watched that video since I recorded it it’s really challenging for me to go back right to I I think the the emergence from greater states of suffering right toward more freedom and I remember recording it I remember I my children were one and two and I was in the room with the baby Ching the the diaper table like trying
(06:47) to just catch a second in between all of it and what an epic opportunity for me to do you know the program the vitamine Reset program that he did then and catch my narrative then because you know as a mama that’s not something that I want to pass on to my children and also just you know stepping into Freedom at the soonest opportunity is is everything and I I’m so grateful that for that so my I mean I I know my story is so long but I will I’ll just highlight what I see happened I I was at 18 I had what you know many called a breakdown and I
(07:27) experience now as a cracking open and it was massive right that’s not the it’s not the sort of standard experience I think that many have with depression anxiety and and all the symptoms that can come in that you know and and sometimes they physical but for me it was mental health spiritual and and it happened fast and I what I really needed was a shaman and what I got was a lot of medication and a lot of therapy and a lot of a lot of digging into spaces that didn’t necessarily Set Me Free and instead you know reinforce a narrative
(08:00) that there was something wrong with me and that I had to do these things to be okay right and so that’s what I find so interesting about the world right now is is that that’s quote healing and yet it was so harmful for me and so I I continued with that path for a long time eventually kind of started to exit it but I really you know I was was crying all the time I was what you would call low functioning and and there was some part of me that like exited the world and started to see and feel other things but there was no one to talk about it
(08:30) and it was you know called crazy or I don’t know what’s Bey crazy is not a functioning human being in society like damaged right yeah damaged yeah well and I couldn’t like keep up but I also didn’t want to right because keeping up didn’t make sense and so there’s a way that I had to go against myself to keep up and that creates sickness in a person and I was I was demonstrating that right it’s like I don’t want to get out of bed and do the day as it’s planned out for me as I’m supposed to but I I’ve never considered that maybe there was a voice
(09:06) inside of me that had a different idea or a different possibility so so I continued on and eventually you know sort of exited the system enough but still really thought that there was something wrong with me and that narrative I mean that itself it creates all kinds of disease in one’s life and it did for me right I’m trying to escape that all the time if I’m was fundamentally against myself and that’s how I lived and that’s hard to mother it’s hard to have partnership make friends I I had I didn’t have any friends right I couldn’t connect with
(09:39) people because I was bad and and there was no fix for it I remember just thinking like how could it be that I got a bad hand of cards in my life how can that happen right but that’s what I was taught you have a chemical imbalance and this will be forever and you’ll take medication and then there was this question of like well then what parts of me can I trust if the chemical imbalance comes out in the way I feel and think what do I trust then how do I go forward and it it essentially cut me off from my own voice right so I would Outsource
(10:10) like what do you think about this and the the information I would get would be one that wasn’t aligned with what was true for me and that makes me sick because I then live a life that isn’t my own design based on my own longing and my own homecoming so yeah I mean I I lived I don’t know I think I was um it was five years ago so six maybe six years ago so in my 30s I did vitamine reset and I remember you know the only reason I did it well no there’s a couple reasons I remember listening to a podcast or something you did where you
(10:40) were talking about lighting a candle and I couldn’t and there was something in me that understood what you were saying like this isn’t about not being sick this is about our homecoming and about living a peaceful slow beautiful life for ourselves where we experience pleasure and joy and something about that I’ve never heard in a psychiatrist before and then I I wrote in before I signed up and I was like I said something like don’t you know if I don’t eat sugar I feel suicidal so what then you know and there was this I had this
(11:13) understanding that you wouldn’t create something that would cause harm more harm to somebody like me and so yeah I took a leap of faith you know in in the idea that maybe maybe there’s more for me right than this sort of like getting by self-hatred life that I was living I talk a lot about and I I know you’ve observed this too that when we are initiated to these different levels of our life experience there’s often like this sacrifice right this experience of loss of something that we imagine that we can’t live without and I know that
(11:55) for you one of these and I you know I’ve had the privilege of of witnessing your ensuing Journey over the years following you know this the VMR experience so I know there have been many moments where you have let go of or lost something that you thought would would kill you right and so have I and you know this is this is the nature of expansion is understanding that that is the threshold of you know stepping into further self- agency and self-authenticity but I know that for you the experience of of being labeled
(12:31) as a sick person right you talk a lot about like what it is to think of yourself as sick to be a sick person and to to work under that rubric and that that is something that you now right and you know we’ll talk about this you still have struggles I still have struggles right it’s not like we’re in some poly enish reality where we’re like in tantric ecstasy all day long okay obviously however the experience of yourself as a sick person I have never ever seen you even go close to that right like close to that Consciousness
(13:11) right it’s like once you’re done and you walk away from that it’s done however there’s a loss there right there are things that you get out of being a sick person needs that are met that you have to figure out another way to meet Andor explore you know the vacuum right explore what is left in the wake of that you know destruction of that label so I’d love for you to talk a little bit about like how that transformation of sick Consciousness and the experience of yourself as a sick person has evolved yeah I mean it’s so wild the sick person
(13:46) idea right is so interesting because to call myself a sick person is to be against myself and and it’s like I have one responsibility in this lifetime and it’s to be on my own team and that’s the team of the Divine of God of the universe of love and if I am against myself it’s like I’m also against love and that’s the wildness of all of this and so where did that come from like where where did I ever get that I was a sick person because no one’s born thinking they’re a sick person and there’s something like just
(14:22) fundamentally insane about that you know and that’s that’s the ultimate work right is to create enough of a found Foundation where you realize that you can choose who you believe you are you can choose your own self- relation and your own it’s not even selft talk right it’s like how you walk in the world it’s like you can choose to bow to yourself or to harm yourself and to call yourself a sick person or any other diagnosis in my opinion is self harm so yeah it’s so no part of me I mean there no there are moments where I things happen and I
(14:58) don’t it’s not a Nar ative that I’m sick but I’m like the Badness comes in right and it feels like a cloak of hell it’s the worst that that experience of being bad you know which which is what I called sick does come in in moments in my journey but in the in the bigger picture I there’s I’m not sick at all like I I believe that everything is for me my body the symptoms I have even the quote accidents that I experience like the universe is on my team because I am of the universe and I’m of the Divine and I used to believe like that that
(15:35) there was something wrong with my core and when you believe that you don’t trust yourself and from that only sickness is created and you have evidence for it right it’s like only disease can follow that but I can’t even I don’t know where that changed in me but it’s everything it’s like going from being against yourself to being for yourself or going from going against the world and God to being for God and the world and love that’s that’s the shift right and yeah totally when I when I talk about the victim triangle as
(16:09) pertains to allopathic medicine and like this big reveal that the the villain in that triangle is is you right like you’re the both the victim recruiting The Rescuer as the doctor the system or whatever but who you’re fighting is is you when it comes to Psychiatry there is a depth and a nuance wants there that is absent other Specialties right so when it’s your pancreas because of your diabetes you know it’s like oh my bad dysfunctional pancreas you know when it is a psychiatric diagnosis as you mentioned what is
(16:45) fundamentally pathologized is actually just you like the collection of parts that you identify the collection of defenses your persona the Unice as you said you you can no longer Trust any dimension of yourself because you are a pathology right just like the totality of you is condemned and somehow because at some point we pick up this this idea that we’re broken and damaged it feels also like validating on some level right like when you’re first diagnosed like oh right like something is wrong with me yeah so like I I think the
(17:26) transformation of that consciousness requires a ritual right it requires a pattern disruptor it requires like something to introduce a rupture in the fabric that is otherwise so tightly woven by so many aspects of our culture and society and our upbringing so I’d love for you to to talk a bit about like in that landscape of that disruptor that vital mind reset was like what made it challenging for you to like move through the process of the 44 days and maybe you could sort of like you know touch on the experience in general and what were the
(18:05) shifts that you saw in the short term and then the ones that sort of like percolated over time because I know so much about your lifescape has evolved and shifted now that there is this different Bedrock of belief you know that that I am on my own team I mean that’s it right it’s not a zero sum game anymore yeah and I I want to add to you know when when someone takes on a diagnosis right and it’s like oh you see me you see how much I’m suffering there’s this belief that there’s something on the other side of that and
(18:37) there isn’t because you took on a diagnosis that says you’re bad that there’s something wrong with you that the world’s unsafe the world’s not for you like you’re not in the river and nothing good comes out of that right and that’s that’s sort of the an actually more suffering follows and that’s the whole that’s the Trap of it right I mean it does feel good but choose something that’s against you never leads to anything good so yeah vitamin reset I I agree you know it’s a moment of choosing to say no and when you sign up for
(19:11) vitamin reset right you’re choosing to say no and the thing that’s interesting about it is it’s a program and one could say well we’re you’re fixing something but it’s not like that and and you know we can speak more about that it’s it’s a foundation of freedom of choice to choose from so I think when I chose that there’s a way that I was saying to the universe I don’t believe that there’s something wrong with me and let’s find out right which is always really scary the leaps of Faith are scary because what if it’s not true what if it what if
(19:38) there is something wrong with me what if I don’t belong or I don’t deserve to be well so you know I mean certainly there was a lot in those 44 days that were really challenging for me in terms of the diet and dealing with the feelings that I didn’t want to feel and still right there’s still ways that when I really look at the ways that I’m exiting in my life and feel what’s here it’s a lot but there’s an Alchemy in that offering it’s almost like someone’s looking at you saying you can do this and you can be free and this
(20:09) isn’t true about you and that you’ve agreed to things that are not in your best interest so right like eat these foods that were designed for your body and do these things to support your own self-calming and discover that you can return home to your core Center and so support your body to clear out was never for you right that you consumed for whatever reason to try to exit the state of life that’s sometimes horrific right in these agreements that we have so I think you know I had a lot of support my husband did the 44 days with me and
(20:44) there’s just no turning back right and and you don’t your container doesn’t really give a lot of options for like you know there’s not a lot of like oopsie or like it’s just you hold a mirror in that creation that says no you’re not going to kill yourself Jamie if you don’t eat sugar and you don’t say that but I can feel that and do this for yourself it’s 44 days you already said yes so that’s that’s how I got through and I think I noticed I mean I noticed some significant shifts with just the smoothie and the breakfast right it’s
(21:16) like it’s like I wasn’t nourishing myself on any level and no wonder I’m spinning in these stories that I have to kind of keep true to keep my life going around right it’s like all of my diet and self-care supported that a good reason right because when you slow down and the noise calms the fires go down you start to see what’s not working for you and that can create some more significant disruption at first which leads to Freedom long term I mean you know once you start to hear your own voice my life radically
(21:45) changed I we left the states we went on I we I was just thinking about it today that you know before the world changed a few years ago and everything was set on fire I had this sense that the walls are caving in and we left the states a couple months before in our our camper for uh forever adventure and I got to be in on land where I could breathe during a really challenging time that that my sensitivities would I wouldn’t do well in mask land and Y yada so yeah I mean I find that you know one thing I know is
(22:21) that the inner voice my inner voice everyone’s inner voice leads to life and creation right all the time and it’s like these Mini Leaps of faith and without that it’s almost like I’m living in the past or I’m not in life and so I think that the long-term benefits of this is the connection to that and it’s ultimately choosing life like I’m not afraid of my body I’m not afraid of my longings I’m not afraid of the circumstances that may seem not good for me at a moment I know that I’m held and that I’m listening and that I’m
(22:52) following and that that connection is growing every day so I love how you depicted the no because it’s exactly you know how we talk about it and how I see it is like that there Comes A Time in everybody’s life where they are presented with an opportunity to deliver like a big no to some dimension of a consented Dynamic even if it was like semiconscious consented to some dimension of their personality that is they’re no longer interested in sustaining maybe a big relationship you know for for many people who find their
(23:28) way to VMR it’s the big no to the to the medical system right to the whole churn of managing symptoms and assuming the subliminal messaging of the pill bottle that says you know something’s wrong with you every time you open it and I like to think of that no as the beginning of the initiation of you know what I now see as the masculine principle like within us right so this this attending presence that has finally shown up and I joke like finally gives enough of a to actually care you know like what’s going on in your life
(24:06) so that presence and that attention is what it sounds like carried you through the 44 days like that holding of yourself that says like you’ve got this you’re doing this like one foot in front of the other and that walking our way out of our own patterns also requires that we sit with what comes up right but without that container what comes up feels we’ve never learned how to feel it so it it has the signature from childhood of like the tsunami right like the decimating earthquake like the you know getting swallowed into the center
(24:43) of the earth instead of just a sensation in the body so I think that this initiatory process delivers us you use the words like I I return home right delivers us like home and I wonder if you could describe for people like in your experience like what does it almost everyone we work with and in my practice almost everyone I ever worked with use the phrase I finally feel like myself I finally feel like I’ve come home it’s just this it’s almost like a meme inside our Consciousness that we access oh like here here I am I’m home I wonder if you
(25:16) could describe what that’s been like for you because if you were someone who was like a sugar addict let’s say and who use this reward system that is very effective it works right it works like any addiction it works until it doesn’t how is it that you could possibly feel you know anything other than deprived Living Without You know these Simple Pleasures that were sort of like buoying you through your very demanding lifestyle as a mom of like two little nuggets and really just trying to make your way in the world you know so how
(25:52) would you describe this feeling of reclamation of course right like of coming home to yourself that you’ve experienced yeah you know when you’re talking about this what comes up for me is when I was in the hospital you know in the psych I was doing these little crafts and like right and my life was very small in that moment and the way out was everyone else was going to tell me anybody really anyone with any kind of badge in that place or outside that place was going to tell me and there’s no there’s no life in that right there’s
(26:28) no life for me and that there’s no creation the world doesn’t get to like hear my song on any level right from that place in that belief system and I think that I feel now like my song is mine and there’s no there aren’t rules that there’s no no one can tell me how to sing it all I know is that I can listen inside to the way that it wants to be sung and what what that looks like in my life and I know now that I’m the only one who knows and I think that’s the grand homecoming is I can hear that clearly and I trust it
(27:06) fully and therefore I’m free right because there’s going to be there are obstacles and there will be future obstacles but I also recognize that they are for me and that they are here to teach me to let go to surrender further to you know they’re like my they’re my own Awakening for lack of a better word and I think that that is what it feels like to come home to myself and I was on the radical other end of that Spectrum right like taking five meds and you know like shaking in my hands ask asking for what I should do to be okay right but
(27:41) I’m the one that knows that and I think that also when you’re in agreement with that of course medications of course all the ways to numb out because it’s excruciating and horrific to be a soul and a body who feels like she’s sick and has to ask other people who obviously don’t know you could see it in their eyes nobody knows you know nobody knows the the potential for fear and suffering you know is a lot in this lifetime and so yeah I just I feel like it’s that I stop looking to them and there’s a a deep peace inside in that in that world
(28:18) and it took it took you have to get the noise down right it’s almost like like the fire it’s almost like literally the inflammation in your life which is all over and it it creates a buffer between you and your agreement to that which is not for you which is against you your agreement to the self harm it makes it like possible to live you know and when that goes down then you can start to make some choices so you have now been on the other side of the aisle for like many years right so you ascended into you know volunteering and then running
(28:53) the community basically and coaching and now we are about to Launch our first coach certification program but you very quickly Rose into my awareness as somebody who is uniquely gifted at space holding and again in a very different way than I am and a way that I feel is an extraordinary compliment you know to to my energy and part of it is because you walk in the dark so easefully and gracefully and you you feel right like so your feminine principle is an this is like you know I’ve called them canaries in the co mine you know folks like you
(29:32) who get captured by the system through the polarity lens like it’s those you know who don’t know how to guard you know they’re they feminine right like you have so much feminine energy and Essence that without again that structured masculine container for yourself like you’re just so vulnerable to violation self and other right which is really the same in the end but the way that you have held space for the the program participants over the years and then in private coaching has given you the opportunity to see what kinds of
(30:06) folks are attracted you know to this proposition of changing your story in 44 days and also what are the ingredients of Readiness right like what are the ingredients that set people up for success in rewriting their story and in pattern disrupting and in shedding their struggle and orienting towards challenges adversity and these kinds of unwanted uncomfortable experiences in like a totally different way so I’d love you know to talk a little bit about like what you’ve observed you know what do you think are the ingredients for who
(30:46) benefits most from this program and what have you observed are like the ingredients for self- Reclamation right because I’ve been studying this Readiness phenomena for so many many years and I really don’t have much of a handle on it you know because I know that that’s so much of what we do is create the conditions for people to engage and work with their own Readiness to change and evolve their story but I wonder what you’ve observed like on the meta as far as like the people that have moved through the program the people
(31:18) that you feel have benefited the most what are they like are they only ever I mean I know the answer to this they are the only ever the really sick people with like 800 diagnosis or like what about like like the woman who just feels like she’s living behind a glass wall in an unfulfilling marriage like snapping at her kids and you know who hasn’t felt pleasure in her body maybe ever you know like who is this for who benefits the most and what are the ingredients for you know successful outcomes would you say yeah this question is so challenging
(31:48) right because what creates Readiness I think that one of the things I mean you can feel in someone when they want to defend their experience of hardship or of something and they’re it’s not just they’re defending it they want to grow it through the defending of it right it’s like no it’s like that for me or no I have this thing that’s not that’s not Readiness and I don’t know why I don’t know why and I I you know we can all feel places that we defend that are it’s too scary to crack that open but I think that you know one of my one of my most
(32:25) favorite like spaces to be in is to be able to to shine back to someone that they do not have depression that they do not have a diagnosis right in a really strong way and I’m sure I’m sure and it can be really shocking to someone but I know the energy when the person’s ready to receive that when they do not want to hold on to that to keep some kind of structure together right it’s like it’s like the the death of the six Story the six story serves and so when it’s no longer serving that’s when it can crack open you know and sometimes I think that
(32:57) creates a enough discomfort for somebody although I see the world changing and the people that are showing up are different where they they just almost have beliefs in the the corners of their lives that are not in their benefit that they also want to transform and say this is not true for me anymore all things are for me everything that comes through me serves in a way and if I can have a grand curiosity about it it can find its own alignment and like the not unravels right so I mean you know we’ve people show up that aren’t fully ready like
(33:31) almost like a a person buys it for them and it could be really challenging because they they want to say I am this help me with this thing that I’ll always have and that’s not the work right the the work is to release all of the narratives and say what what here is for me you know in my sense we say this so much in VMR right because it’s like if there’s any whisper that is for you then it is for you almost like if you’re a a t maybe you’re a yes when it comes to this with all things like this right with all birth canals like if you hear a
(34:06) Tiny the tiniest yes go through the birth canal and release and surrender like the stuff that you’re carrying that you don’t want to carry anymore the tiny yes feel I think that absent this kind of a lifestyle like self-care initiation feeling for that tiny s is like virtually impossible because it’s a it’s like a somatic phenomenon right it’s like like the tiny yes is like a little like it’s like a flutter in your you know your abdomen or something or maybe it’s like a little like a little tap in your chest or whatever however you
(34:39) experience your intuitive impulse and that slow subtle realigning with your like Euros right your your vital force energy that you were shamed away from and triangulated against you know many many decades ago as a kid and like feeling for that yes becomes so much easier when like you said you quiet the inflammation of your life and your body right like when you quiet the noise then you know that yes becomes obvious even when it’s met with like a lot of resistance and you know what I call like a big pile of no but that first teeni
(35:14) yes right like that first like yeah this program has something for you right like there’s something in the field that this program holds that could afford you a new experience of your own you know dimensionality your own uness and that self-alignment I think is is how we begin to restore that trust that you were saying is so fractured by so many systems it’s not just obviously the psychiatric system I mean I have never taken a psychiatric Med and I relate to everything that you and so many of the participants say because it’s part of
(35:50) the experience that we have of engaging you know the Stockholm syndrome right it’s like engaging against ourselves with the recruitment of the aggressor and then celebrating the aggressor for saving Our Lives you know it’s like really quite amazing you know like what we’ve been up to but I do think that you know the phrase that I often use is like feeling right about being wronged that letting go of that habit or at least introducing a little bit of like okay maybe not right or like I’ll consider the possibility or like just a little
(36:25) bit of nuance like into the certainty about how wronged we have been and in what ways means that you don’t need to get your safety from that place right there are other ways to send yourself this signal of of safety and I know that you’ve seen like extraordinary transformations in people’s lifescapes you know when they are ready to you know it’s almost like the flip like be wrong about being right you know like so certain that that they um they had it themselves figured out in this like very deadend way you know like
(37:03) like you said like I am the I am the woman with Lyme disease like I am the man with panic attacks like I have this insomnia I’ve had it forever like you know this these alpers run in my family or like the joint pain you know whatever it is we identify with it obviously and there’s a part of us that imagines that we need this we actually need it in order to get you know what it is that we don’t think there’s another way of of securing right so like I wonder you know in your years of watching people move through this birth canal because that’s
(37:37) actually like what it is this this metaphysical birth canal if you can think of like any of the more I don’t know inspirational like examples that you’ve experienced because we really we do surprise ourselves right and sometimes in really short order like in during the weeks of the program or in the couple weeks you know afterward and we’ve received so many testimonials about like what occurs in people’s lives afterward that I wonder which ones like so many of them bring tears to my eyes right and and my favorite ones are like
(38:11) you know the stories about like I thought I would have to take these meds forever and now I don’t take them anymore like for whatever reason that you know just is so flies in the face of the dogma of what I was trained around but I wonder like which are the stories that inspire you and like bring tears to your eyes like is it is it like the moms whose hearts come back online or like you know the addiction recovery or the like I thought I would be bedbound forever and now I’m not or like what are the ones you love the most one of the
(38:40) ones that comes to mind is a woman um I know she did a testimonial who had back pain that kept her bed bound she had three children and has three children and was handicap in a way they were young I think she was young you know early 40s and would think that this you know because the protocol there’s something very simple about it right it’s like we talk about we talk about the maybe yes and and it’s so funny because when I’m when I’m in it and and when it gets challenging it’s like we’re just we’re just eating natural food and
(39:12) ancestral diet that’s you know it it’s not like it takes all this time and all this stuff there’s something very simple and it’s so scary and it’s also like just to get curious around that but so so who would think that this would impact back pain but it does right because what it brings to light is the self- responsibility of how is this serving me and what do I want to shift so that this is no longer my life right where I’m not able to take care of my kids or work or shift you know relationship they may not be working for
(39:43) me and I just witnessed her come to life get off the bed to get a job and make good money and change her life because she then she it’s like she took the power of her body and went and created what she wanted to create in this life Against All Odds because there was nobody rooting for her you know she rooted for herself and did the program and and her I mean it’s just an incredible it just was so incredible to witness that right and it it took time but she you know a lot of the people that come through they know there’s
(40:16) something here for me and I’m staying with this and I’m staying with what’s true here until it becomes my way of being and I think that in general but what I love also love is the women who have who self-identify because this hits close to home for me but identify as depressed and have either been hospitalized or been treated in a way where they were that in their family they were the depressed sick one right and to watch them shift into the Creator the Visionary the artist it’s like the one in front of the ship pointing the
(40:46) way in their family because that’s what they are right and and in because they have not given themselves permission to express that and that wasn’t safe as a child they contracted that energy when that energy comes out and so does their art just to witness the ease in them and you know they become available to their partners and their children and I love that I I mean it’s like it’s like dragging around like this Bal and chain of the story about yourself and then realizing that you’re the one doing it and you can let go and yes that can be a
(41:16) scary process but like you’re the only one like No One’s Gonna fix you and there’s nothing to fix right it’s like let the energy forward to create this beautiful world that we all get to enjoy from you totally and all of the energy that is locked up in the inherent shame of wearing that experience of your own Brokenness your own damaged nature it’s liberated right and it’s liberated in in these creative ways and we’ve seen so many people you know move through this process of individuation and personal Reclamation to express their gifts
(41:54) become healers and artists and activists and just all of this energy gets reassigned as you were saying and unlocked and obviously you’re a tremendous example of that right like exactly that about yourself which you imagined was your wrongness is the same place as I experienced that you speak from to support Inspire and spaceold for others they’re one in the same like you know the wound is where the light shines through kind of a thing and you have alchemized your experience of sickness into self- leadership and meaningful you
(42:34) know vocational experience and you know really coming into your purpose and I know that that’s also a passion that you have is like bringing people into this experience of you know what I reference I hope I’m not saying this wrong because I I like recorded it in the last book like I don’t even know but it’s this Japanese word iy guy right I think that’s how you say it when I like looked it up that’s what I heard anyway it’s i k i g Ai and it’s this concept that there is almost like this vent diagram of possibility and potential that we
(43:11) each have for actualization of our creative expression that can be married with prosperity and skill right our gifts our talents and service and that it is possible for each of us to achieve this level of fulfillment and the experience of translating our struggle into meaningful contribution and support for others obviously that’s what so many of us are doing these days online you know that’s that’s a lot of what how it’s like the wounded healer archetype right like it’s a lot of how we are holding a hand out in the dark to those
(43:46) who are just a few steps behind so I’d love for you to speak a little bit about like what you see as the potential that people have to move through this process of self-initiation to actually find their purpose like to find their reason for being and to connect to how that links to their struggle right like to to cross the bridge from the struggle to you know the personal expression yeah it’s wild right I mean it’s I I remember when everything happened for me at 18 and I like I now try to access what came in because it was so massive and
(44:23) profound and it was called mental illness and now it’s like oh I could now I want as much of that those downloads to come in as as were there because because they’re they’re Divine I mean they’re of the light and that that’s now my work right and it’s so curious It’s like there’s some power in that right because I haven’t really purposely not gotten certifications that would like be like this is a framework for healing because I’m so sensitive to a right way and a wrong way because of my upbringing and my experiences in the system that I
(45:00) don’t want that filter right I just want it to be me as I am as a mirror and see what what shows up in in the in between spaces so but it’s so curious right because it’s like my quote mental illness is now my gift and work right and how’s that happen and I think that I mean I just know I I know this that it’s it’s almost like it’s like the places that we are sensitive and where we are most open If energy isn’t if something’s not moving through and you’re not able to offer and receive from those spaces in you they will get sick or diseased on
(45:39) some level and I I think that I really know when I when I work with men and women that those that carry different diagnoses and I don’t know these kind of weights on them of I am bad or I am sick are so brilliant and it’s not I I sometimes I think people think I’m just saying that like trying to make them feel better I’m not trying to make them feel better we’re not trying to make anyone feel better at all we’re just speaking what’s true and and it is true right it is that it is the the space of what appears to be a wound that is yours
(46:15) to cultivate the magic that resides in there you know and it it’s just it’s just true and you’re the only one that can do it cuz you’re you’re the only one that actually knows the way or and hears the whisper so like I can’t say well here you’re you have this diagnosis do art or whatever it’s not like that right you might want to go live on a farm in I don’t know the middle of America I don’t know what your voice says but what what I do know is that vitamine reset and this work can can can give you an opportunity to hear it and you can be in
(46:50) a field where others have given themselves permission to listen and then you discover what what your magic is and then you look back and it’s not just like oh I was tricked it’s more like thank you for giving me the opportunity to claim this right I that’s that’s where you land because I don’t I don’t feel I’m not like they said I was mentally ill and I was actually XYZ it’s not like that it’s like thank you for giving me the grounds to make this choice for myself with courage and with trust and love and and Beauty right so
(47:26) because yeah yeah I don’t know I’m not totally sure when that happened 18 it was like some sometimes there’s like a I mean I guess I could have patched it up and I could have been the sick one you’re right but that’s a not a life I want yeah there’s like a special Confluence of the the end of that experience of you know the suppressed gift and this like geyser right it’s like when you were describing like you wish you could access like what was channeling through you back in the day the courage that it takes to tap back into that after having
(48:05) been convinced that it’s like the source of all of your dangerous instability and unsafety that Readiness somehow comes into you know synchronicity with the opting into this program and I I do agree that like the first it’s almost like when you press like pay or whatever it is like when you click the button it begins you know it’s like preparing for a plant medicine experience you know is coming six months up like the Alchemy is already underway in the months preceding and I think it begins in this case because to choose yourself in this
(48:42) radical way like I said to just give enough of a about yourself to show up and to say I’m going to commit I’m going to pay attention you know I am going to follow this ritual that I am engaging electively there’s some on a deep neurobiological level that gets disrupted which is that helplessness that powerlessness that dependency that you know tell me how to be a better version of my broken self program and it doesn’t mean that that you do this program the way you want to this is not an intuitive program like it’s very
(49:16) structured and it’s very delimited right so it’s meant to be it’s meant to be this initiation ritual and then you move on like there’s you know you offer support to people people in the Lial stage afterward because it can be very vulnerable you know as the Sands are shifting beneath your feet and because you have so much expertise in navigating that area and Arena of one’s life however the truth is as you said it’s just continually reconnecting people to their own navigational compass because you know there is no prescribed path
(49:51) beyond the portal right it’s just it’s just the portal so I love that and God I’m so grateful for the experience that we’ve had it’s really just it’s an extraordinary pleasure to Bear witness to this I imagine the way you know a birthkeeper on some level just finds you know wakes up every day and it’s like I have the best job it’s just being able to watch this transition and the contrast is is extraordinary and to do this with you husb been and continues to be amazing so I would love for you to share with people as we close up like
(50:28) these days how do you cope right so if in the old days you had you know this experience of yourself as symptomatic and maybe you would you know get help from your doctor or you know consult someone in the system or just wait to be told what to do and in learned helplessness or maybe once you begin to work with like you know conventional addictions and and sugar and all the rest and avoidance tactics you would cope with that way like these days when you have you experience upset or The Unwanted or the uncomfortable like how
(51:05) is it that you respond yeah it’s so interesting like I forgot even it’s the physical right that I don’t ever go to the doctor anymore never ever and haven’t for years and it’s that’s not even in my field which is so interesting because I kind of think that those particular challenges stop showing up when you stop feeding them like the dynamic so you know I think I I continue to be sort of a non-practice kind of person like there’s lots of tools and and tricks out there and I have an awareness like when I when
(51:39) my system is flooded I can have an awareness of my hand or that there’s a parallel reality to the one that I think is the only truth but I tend to you know actually take those kinds of experiences as a sign of where am I like backed up in my life where have I not been true and what is where’s the relief for that where do I what’s the ask of my my alignment right whether that’s in the design of my life or in relationships or something like that and I think that I I tend to go inward to start to listen and look for the whisper of where I next
(52:19) need to surrender and I know that there’s many many ways to do that with you know somatic work and stuff and and that hasn’t really clicked with me what seems to what seems to be my way is to listen further for the whisper and to get more clear on how I haven’t been listening and how I might be out of alignment and as you know I’m a big like life designer and I I tend to make really big shifts often well that may that’s s true but but I really have this vision for my own life where I where we slow down you know and live in a way
(52:54) that has that’s just much more connected to myself to to Nature to the flow of life and almost let go of this you know concept that I think we’re all brainwashed to believe like if if all these things align I’m G to be okay right there’s like it’s like the grand okayness is in the the not okayness and the trust and the the trusting of One’s Own longing and so I think my my baby steps are always toward further toward that I love such music to my ears and yeah I mean I think what you described is the the awareness of
(53:30) disconnection it’s like almost when we are disempowered we we don’t have an awareness that we are disconnected right it’s just sort of like this is the reality of my struggle it’s the static reality of my struggle and now you know obviously like both of us live a life where like oh I’m disconnected here’s the evidence right and I can choose to reconnect right or I can choose to connect in a new way or I can choose to go deeper and that dance between the perception of what is misaligned that leads to symptoms or struggle or a sense
(54:07) of like just unfulfillment and the engage engaged choices around that sense of disconnection like that’s called being an adult right like that’s called like living living your life according to yourself and that’s you know that’s what we’re here for is like the mystery the adventure that unfolds beyond that and I love you know the depiction of the Simplicity that you I first of all I’ve I’ve I have witnessed from the outside in that you have gotten closer to that than pretty much anyone I know and I know you’re you’re still going for gold
(54:43) in the experience of just like inhabiting new lifescapes and trying on new identities and that plasticity and fluidity is also something that’s only available when you feel really comfortable with who you are beyond the artifice of your persona beyond the like here are the things that make me who I am you know I’m a New Yorker I’m a doctor I’m a I’m a liberal I’m a this you know whatever it is and you get to this place where you’re just making momentto moment choices and you trust yourself to guide yourself even if it is
(55:17) into wonky weird places where there are things to clean up or reorganize and that’s everything you know because otherwise you’re never really safe from the embedded programming that says you know now you’re too anxious now you’re too depressed now you’re too crazy and you can’t handle yourself right you don’t know how to be yourself you need help so I think you you know you model that in Spades and you also have supported so many people in walking out of that story and to this like you know extraordinary but also very mundane
(56:01) right like empowered reality which is just like you know delighting in the chopping wood carrying water you know of of the everyday experience so I love that I love that anything Jamie as we close that you would want to make sure that people who are you know just sort of feeling that yes maybe feeling that like I wonder I wonder what is possible for me if I were to break out of my own box I wonder what other lanes I could drive down like I wonder what other shades of meanness are available like anything that you would want to tell
(56:37) that person almost like what would you tell yourself you know at 25 or something you know from where you are are now yeah you know I I was thinking as you’re speaking about like choosing to do vitamin reset and this sort of narrative of it’s like either you’re crazy you are crazy or you are sick or you are bad or there is something unfixable or and what’s the or right because I I see this everywhere it’s like either you’re against yourself and you you fundamentally believe something that is against yourself or or love or
(57:15) your whole or it’s all possible or you can experience everything you want in this lifetime and that’s not selfish and that’s not you know that’s not too big too much it’s like what’s there’s not really there’s like a fork in the road and there’s not really a lot of other choices either you believe that you’re there’s something wrong or there’s something else and I think the one of the things for me is it’s like the unraveling right and I I sometimes joke that I thought like if I followed if I followed my heart if I followed What
(57:46) felt like love or possibility that I would like end up with dreadlocks and like there dreadlocks but like you know I mean like I would just like I don’t know fall off a and become someone that I didn’t recognize anymore and I think that that’s what the story of don’t do it keeps you in and it can sound like you know I’ve had people say I’ve spent so much money on getting better and it’s like that’s not what this is like stop trying to fix it and do something else because when you’re trying to fix something you’re reinforcing the story
(58:18) that there’s something wrong that’s not what this is this is about your own homecoming and this is about giving yourself a foundation to to choose for yourself and that can be terrifying right because if you start choosing for yourself we all know that some your life’s going to look a lot different but you’re also going to come out of these symptoms that keep you down right your your energy will be unlocked and you’ll be able to create and and you have a choice in this life we all do and it can be terrifying to like step out of those
(58:47) walls I don’t even know what to call it right but we can feel it it’s like it’s like what happens to me if I right if I choose my own longing and I just think like you you get it choose but everything toward that always always amen woman amen yes it’s just so amazing to have walked such different paths in in life and to have come to this place where we speak so much the same language and it’s just almost this emergent truth that we connect through and that we find that like hundreds of other people ALS like bubble up to the surface and and
(59:29) meet us right here it’s an amazing part of this journey and I’m very very blessed to walk the path with you love you woman
