(00:01) [Music] I’m Dr Kelly Brogan you may know me as the New York Times bestselling author of a book with an exploding pill on the cover Renegade psychiatrist pul dancer or honorary member of the disinformation Dozen what can I say I’m a born provocator I’ve spent most of my recent life exposing deceptions connecting dots and discovering the secret places my inner victim is still waiting to be liberated and now I feel called to help you reclaim all of your parts your health your sexuality your power and your expression so that you can finally
(00:42) truly own yourself I want to ignite in you that inner knowing and the pulsing Vitality that lives beneath your disempowerment disconnection and resentment so that you can audaciously courageously and playfully alchemize your struggle into the specific pleasure of Who You Are this is Reclamation radio hi and welcome back to Reclamation radio I am Dr Kelly Brogan and I am here in conversation with somebody I am super excited to give the mic to Joel Schaefer I had a mystical experience the first time that I heard this man speak in one of our
(01:23) closed door secret society meetings of me and my inner circle of trusted colleagues and and a A friend brought him in I didn’t know what he was going to talk about and it’s funny because Joel and I were just talking about like preparing speeches and that kind of a thing and I was sort of like why doesn’t he have a PowerPoint what’s going on here I don’t even know what the subject is and it was Loosely framed as toltech dreaming arts and I had no pre-existing like database to plug that into I didn’t know what that meant I
(02:00) probably assumed I wasn’t particularly interested in you know anything related to Dreaming although I have several different vectors coming into my space at this same exact time that are inviting me to and I have like sort of dabbled in lucid dreaming but that have invited me to recognize that that is an entire Arena an entire dimension of my power that I can choose to navigate with intention or I can just be like the rest of the the slobs wandering around to go to sleep wake up and say like oh I didn’t remember my dreams okay moving on
(02:38) and as he began to unpack what he wanted to share I found myself like having an inner experience of inspiration and truth and I can’t really explain it beyond that other than that you are clearly a channel and I um I’m so excited to be because you you’ve lived you know more of a private life I would say than than most of our colleagues and I’m excited that you are willing to come up on stage to take the mic and I’m excited to to share you there aren’t many and I don’t think you would call yourself like necessarily maybe you
(03:18) would a spiritual teacher but there really aren’t many that I can point to who I feel have coherently addressed the many deceptions in our midst right and there are a couple of big topics um related to health and cosmology uh and others that I feel are the places where these blind spots of victim Consciousness which is disempowered energy can hide and you know I have learned to take the message over the medium right so I can interact with you know teachers who have been you know pro- Health mandates and all the rest uh
(04:05) who have very important messages you know to bring forth you know somebody like Byron Katie comes to mind for example and I can absolutely appreciate her work recognizing that we’re just not necessarily living in the same spiritual world with regard to the body and the body’s energy and that’s fine but you are an example of somebody who I feel U aligned with in all of these other ways and so what you are bringing forth really it’s it expand what is is possible for me so thank you for being in conversation with me Joel and I want
(04:36) to start out really with I don’t often start interviews this way because I feel like it’s I don’t know it can be a little boring like why do you even want to know about somebody before you know what’s interesting about what they have to say however I I would love to even for my own reasons to learn a bit about how it is that you find yourself in a position to speak about what we’re going to unpack today which is dreaming energy Sexual Energy and the important teachings that have inspired your understanding of what we are being
(05:08) called to face right now uh as humans and you have like a bit of um an interesting unconventional path in both like the secular worlds and if I could call it mystical spiritual worlds so I’d love to hear a bit about how you find yourself in conversation with me here and and then we’ll dive in thank thank you Kelly so honored to be here and really appreciate you bringing me on and it’s been great connecting with you and and the the group that we met through so I’m really honored to be a part of such a powerful group of minds and hearts and
(05:44) yeah I think what what I’ve come to discover about this energetic realm and to acknowledge the spirit the word spiritual I think Shaman and tolch are more energetic than spiritual and they they really struggle with helping people come out of the religious programming that seems to infiltrate the spiritual parts so people that word sort of ends up becoming uh something to get really clear about I was very fascinated by Book of Knowledge that Carlos Cen shared with the world that for many many years he wrote some powerful books and they
(06:14) tend to get overlooked as fantasmagorical uh impossible you know they were labeled non-fiction and then later they were there was labeled fiction for a period of time one of my elders that I trained with and lived in with in an apprenticeship in New Mexico old powerful ancient looking man who’d been through a lot of intense Vietnam tragedies and traumas but had survived through magical means and real a real sorcerer in this world he he was friends with Carlos costano I avoided the ctin world because it got Cy ctin
(06:48) was really powerful and so I could have gone and trained directly with him but I was already training with really intense Shaman at a young age I was just fortunate to meet them uh randomly I most people would have been scared of these people but I I could tell that I could learn something about perception from them so I had a longing to to know more about what’s possible within the realm of perception ever since I took psychedelics at 13 it was just like it hit me I was like this is not a drug that I’m on it’s just something that
(07:19) delivered me to a very unique and ideal place of interacting with this realm and realizing there’s so much more to it than what we’ve been conditioned to perceive it as and so so rather than like get caught up in the world of lucid dreaming it’s more about learning to realize that this is a dream that we’re in here and that how we perceive it determines our experience our perception creates our reality and so our ability to to get silent and to see energy will open up the doors of of how to really interact with the Earth and have a
(07:52) sentient relationship with her as a Consciousness and the Sun as a Consciousness so the toex says some really confronting and Powerful things around Sexual Energy around our attention where our attention goes and and then therefore how we perceive our reality and so it’s not as hard of a physical world as we think and so shamans find a way to unlock that and get to the softer edges and start to unlock and really discover that there’s a mysterious side that is unexplainable and rather than try to explain that they
(08:26) seek to interact with the mystery in a magical way so I trained early on with really powerful people and spent a lot of time in the wilderness trying to move our perception away from the base perception and so I took a lot of risks I dropped out of high school I traveled in the Rocky Mountains with backpacks a small group of people where we like forgot our names we were out there you know tripping out like really knew that we could free oursel from the Social Power structure and tap into what’s real power that the ctin books talk about so the in
(09:02) the apprenticeship that Carlos ctin was in in his books he explains all the embarrassing pieces and is really honest and raw and it’s really strange because it’s just it’s like you could tell he really overcame in his ego at a level that most people wouldn’t consider doing and he was forced to his teacher his teacher what Shaman do is they they build your ego up and help you to feel really empowered and strong and then they expose your ego go if they know what they’re doing they follow spirit and they they follow they can tell and
(09:34) they serve as a mirror and they know what to say and do and how to interact with you and each Apprentice is different and so I was put in apprenticeships like that where I was really given a taste of my power as shown how to become really strong but then I was also put in situations that were just very uncomfortable where this person turned on me it felt like and in reality yeah these people weren’t ideal to be working with so there’s no safe world out there to be like go and learn from just everybody is intense everybody
(10:05) has holes in their Consciousness but I followed a guidance system rather than like my mind and so I even though I was in situations that I wouldn’t recommend others to do I felt called to go in and to the Lion’s Den and learn from some really powerful people so yeah multiple apprenticeships for many years and it started when I was 13 it got really intense at 16 you know basically I kept going from different Shaman to Shaman to try to heal from the last one I got myself in too deep into to perceptual expansion that I wasn’t grounded enough
(10:39) to be doing so that’s what I’m offering people now as a grounded way a slow and steady means and methods to learn these things and not to become a shaman but I believe shamans have tools that are necessary for us to learn in order to navigate what’s coming if we do not reclaim and remember what we’re capable of I believe as toltech say we will perish it’s we we’re too cut off from our power we become too domesticated we have to Rew and the toltech teachings teach you how to do that by becoming conscious of your perceptual capacity
(11:15) and there’s a realm of exploration in the realm of dreaming awake where this world becomes Paradise the Earth Mother reveals her secrets to you through silence and gazing out in the mountains or in the desert or the ocean or it could be in a in a jail cell but she will get to you if you if you allow your heart to heal and and the Sun the consciousness of the sun will deliver incredible energy to you as well so I’d love to pause you for some like glossery definitions because I find there to be incredible Nuance in
(11:50) the way that you use words and I want to make sure that that’s communicated so I’d love for you to speak a bit about what a shaman is to you you know in a in a moment where you know people can call a good DJ a shaman and you know anybody who’s done iasa a couple of times thinks they’re a medicine man and I know that you refer to a lineage with great reverence and also circumspection you know recognizing that these are Representatives they’re humans as you said they have holes in their own Consciousness and that in the end the
(12:27) master student diad probably is fading into some sort of obsolescence as we take responsibility right for our own paths as men and and women so I’d love to for you to say a word about that and then also the word power I know that you have an understanding of the dimensions of power that has been informed by your own personal experience and also these these teachings so I’d love to sort of pause to define those before we go a bit deeper into one dimension of of that exploration yeah Shaman there’s obviously I think you scratch the
(13:02) surface of any person and there’s a potential Shaman we all come from a shamanic background but even in the Amazon a lot of the people rely on the shaman but they’re not shamanic they’re not activating that part so it’s usually a role that really really difficult circumstances led to somebody being fully activated nowadays absolutely people I don’t refer to myself as a shaman I’m a student of them but a totech shaman is one that is typically like a lawyer or a doctor and would never reveal that they’re a shaman a real journeyer is somebody
(13:37) that’s using the Matrix as a means to discover their power not running from it and not trying to live in the past so all these people that are holding on to these traditions and identifying their ego with it are caught in the the same thing that catches people in religion it’s like an identification it’s a ego dance and and so the the type of Shaman that tols are are ones that seek Freedom not status and they learn to do dreaming they learn to see energy they learn to use their dream time in a magical ways and they learn to use their daytime in
(14:12) magical ways and they free them themselves from the limitations of other people’s perceptions everybody’s projecting onto us and we have to free oursel from those projections and it’s an energetic transformation you actually have to purify your field on a cellular level and a lot it has to do with like for me like how my dad perceives me like there’s certain people in your life that have the most effect on you and that’s where the deepest work is so shamans are creative magical creatures types that I’m referring to that are freeing
(14:46) themselves from the construct by discovering how to interact with perception in ways that you know uh makes it possible to that to to become nonlinear and then you stop being dictated by time time and you start like a day becomes a really long experience for people that use perception this way power is our relationship with becoming conscious of the forces that we’re interacting with so a lot of truthers have woken up to the fact that there are forces that feed off of human emotion and unconscious behavior and that it’s
(15:22) not that that there’s an little archonic sort of yeah presence and multiple kinds and that’s a very disturbing thing to realize and be able to witness on an energetic level it’s one thing to think about it see the outcome of it but to actually experience it and get to know that is is a difficult thing so there’s Social Power there’s people that have lots of social power and that’s fun and exciting and you can live a really powerful life but it’s based on comparing yourself to people and it’s based on status on some level Shaman
(15:58) seek to free themselves from that Social Power because it’s distracting so that they can have a relationship with real power which is like I don’t know getting to realize that the Thunder enlightening is conscious and and having a communication with it you know like starting to tap into the power like there’s the spirit of the River or the spring places in the mountains where there’s powers that hang out and if you go there you’ll you’ll experience intensity you’ll hear sounds and things that are not human things that are
(16:28) outside of the realm of human humans uh inventory right and that’s that’s uncomfortable and intense but once you become Fearless then those things can’t touch you you just witness them you know and that’s a journey in itself Shaman seek to move Beyond fear as the first natural enemy of man and become conscious of what they can do so there are powers and shamans are aware of those Powers but that doesn’t mean they’re not functional people like they still can do all kinds of incredible things like martial arts and they teach
(16:59) and they interact at universities they’re they’re not you know but I I respect people that go out and like monks that go into caves and all that too I think there’s a skill set there but the toltech seek to be able to to handle all all the challenges of this world and without having to identify themsel as a shaman I’ve heard you teach about because I’ve been in conversation with you and I’ve also been in your uh containers and I’ve heard you teach about these Concepts that seem to serve our taking responsibility for the
(17:38) Integrity of our own energy field and these are phrases I hadn’t never heard before like luminous cocoon and luminous threads and not only do is that already evocative to my imagination but it also I think is the the balance between some of what you referenced which is that there might be these energies I mean I am a believer in projection uh as being one of the as you mentioned one of the great driving forces of this seeming dualistic space we occupy and so you know to be in this sort of evil good polarity I haven’t found to be like uh
(18:17) in line with Sovereign Consciousness and there’s also responsibility that and maturation even that we have the opportunity to embrace when it comes to our energy when it comes to our intentionality when it comes to as you our attention and cleaning up and nurturing this this cocoon seems like one of the first steps so I’d love for you to speak a bit about that as well yeah thank you yeah that this this luminous cocoon that Shaman see is uh they see energy and they don’t see a physical body so much it’s it’s this uh
(18:51) pidal field that surrounds the physical body and there’s like a code of awareness that you can build up around the outside of it and that’s you’ll notice somebody’s really attractive and has a lot of energy and is you know uh capable in a variety of ways this usually has a lot of energy on the outside of their cocoon but people who are constantly distracted their attention is being harvested by some distraction element in their life there there’s very little energy that’s being left it’s sort of at the heels and we
(19:23) want to build that energy up all the way up to and peek it out at the crown and keep that energy intact throughout our day that way these archonic forces don’t be aren’t able to to drain us like most of humanity is being so yeah becoming aware and being able to see energy and understand the difference between people and it’s it’s confronting it’s a it sounds judgmental but it’s not from a place of judgment actually it’s just a place of uh being able to witness and observe and be disturbed and be affected on a deep level so that you’ll be
(19:56) triggered enough to want to transform your life and recognize how what a valuable opportunity it is to be alive I don’t look at I don’t believe in reincarnation I think this is it and I think we should at least treat it that way I hope I’m wrong on some level but I I I just think it’s not linear so I don’t think we should ever assume anything I think we could become multi-dimensional and make use of this time and I think we’re in a time where a lot of people are going to get that ride like that we’re about to move into some
(20:27) really beautiful veil lifting that serves a small group of us I think most people will go along with what is planned for them and that will make our obstacle course very challenging but also necessary so that we will access the resources the energetic luminous resources so when you realize that you’re made up of energy then you become a miser of energy and you stop giving your power away and you stop considering you start considering other ways to take care of yourself and that’s what I teach is these very strange ways of of
(21:04) interacting with the energetic world that will activate you and it’ll create a longing in you and your body will want in on what I’m doing I love that that’s a great uh invitation and accurate you have spoken to me related to what you just shared because I remember how shocked I was to hear and it it speaks to the at this point hegemony of of a lot of new age thinking that you don’t believe in reincarnation and what you know you shared in tandem with that Proclamation is that there is a way to interact with One’s Own Death as an
(21:49) advisor and I mean it gives me chills again I don’t know why that phrase that concept I I can’t say I I fully grasp it and I I find Remembrance in that and so I would love for you I know this is a you know you could give a weekend workshop on this alone uh but I’d love for you to to touch on that concept I don’t know because we have this most of us relate to sort of like draining the the burden of significance from our field through reincarnation like oh yeah well I’ll just come back around next time and I’ll give it another worldl
(22:28) right I’m just this is just a blip on the infinite radar and that thinking also kind of goes with you know we’re on a dead Rock spinning in the middle of nowhere random Big Bang stuff you know and and what you’re inviting or at least my experience of it is is a a sacred seriousness about this specific life on this specific plane and I find that enlivening rather than scary and so what is the role would you say of one’s relationship to their own death that can actually inspire that rather than induce you know fear and dread and a kind of
(23:10) split energy of like being here and also afraid you know struggling with being here and then also terrified of leaving which is where a lot of us get arrested in a kind of inertia right wow yes thank you such a powerful concept and this is what toex they believe the difference between them and other people is that they are beings who are going to die that we perceive oursel as if we’re Immortal and behave accordingly even though we know we’re mortal that’s the hypnosis that’s the programming That’s why nothing gets really resolved here
(23:41) and so we we choose to to break free from that conditioning bring death in as a as an advisor and in those deathbed moments people really value and sense into what they truly wish they had done with their time and we don’t want that to happen we want we want to go out fulfilled knowing that we we really showed up and that we got clear on on on what matters so death is a is an awareness it’s a force they say it’s it’s always stalking you they say life is the arena and death is the player right so we want to bring death
(24:20) in become aware of the player because it makes life Rich there’s nothing more the the greatest accomplishment of a warrior is Joy so shamans refer to themselves as Warrior Travelers they take really really good care ofs in order to prepare for all kinds of intense jolts that are going to happen to them through this process of becoming aware in general just becoming aware awareness this is awareness training death is what makes us aware right death so like Shaman say our life is going to flash before our eyes when
(24:54) we die we want to bring that that consciousness death and the awareness of our memories and how potent they are and how much they will deliver us right so shamans recapitulate they go into their memories as a means to get to know their behavior patterns and to free themselves from their past they call it a racing personal history you can live in the now so death is like a presence that you can invite in a lot of people are Adrenaline Junkies and they go and do death defying things in order to feel alive there’s a
(25:28) more harmonious way to do that you know just by putting yourself in situations that are a little intense I use a lot of Darkness like dark dark rooms or going to the Wilderness alone in the dark you’ll start to feel more alive the more comfortable you are being inside of that kind of intensity and you’ll feel the presence of death so having somebody leave you like a close friend that dies suddenly can be a really life-changing experience because it brings death into the field forces you to recognize your temporariness there’s nothing that can
(26:01) sort of that mortality buffer kind of goes away so we want more of that somehow so some of the greatest gifts are the people that left us because of that they like serve as guides now too some of them are faint and hard to tap into and some of them are just like present right why is that right we want to know what’s the there’s different kinds of death there’s different ways to die shamans Go and sing their Spirit up when they’re ready to leave you know they exit intentionally because they recapitulated their life and they’re ready to transfer
(26:33) into a different layer of the onion permanently so there’s a way to die where you don’t recycle right and I don’t just because I don’t believe in reincarnation doesn’t believe I doesn’t mean I don’t believe in other lives we have parallel lives they’re happening right now we are a multiplicity being you Shaman learn to tap into these parallel lives as they’re happening and you can through your dreaming go and visit and be inside of those other lifetimes and come back to this one and tell your story tell you know it’s
(27:05) personal shamans don’t usually tell their personal stories but they end up being coming storytellers and they tap from that infinite and death is the me the reason they can do that because they’re so conscious that they’re going to leave this place that they get up out of bed in the middle of the night and they go do things that will break pattern I mean depends on your nervous system right if you’re disregulated and you need your sleep it’s not time to be breaking pattern it’s time to use pattern right so it’s
(27:33) just about knowing where you’re at there comes a point where you get this extra boost of energy and you start getting really creative with what you’re going to do with your day and your nights and then you free yourself from being easily hunted like we’re so predictable we want to not be as predictable we want to move into spontaneity and not even know what we’re going to do right because this world is incredible but we’re so pattern based you know that it’s it’s really tricky to find that balance of healing at home and
(28:04) having your your Healthy routines but also getting really bringing death in as a Consciousness in the fact that you’re going out and exploring new territory new ideas new feelings yeah so there’s all kinds of cool ways to to to introduce this this energies but just by being aware like shamans will take a child when they’re at a certain age and take them to a morg sounds weird but you just don’t want a kid to become unconscious at any point you want to constantly bring them to awareness of their immortality if Poss or their
(28:41) mortality if possible but also help them realize that their soul is Immortal and indestructible so we don’t want to live in fear we want to realize that we’re we’re going to be okay in fact everything is going to be amazing but because we’re so conditioned like a lot of people are like how many people are going to be at my funeral you know do I have enough friends all these things that keep us from really becoming authentic right but there’s a there’s another side to the coin if you can come out of that need to be
(29:08) liked and then you stop being a person that is uh you know doing things to be liked and that’s a there’s so much freedom in that and then it takes death to realize that that you’re it takes the consciousness of death to bring to you that aloneness that consciousness of that you’re not willing to do things for the status quo anymore and there’s a ton of freedom in that I use the phrase pattern disrupt to reference a lot of what my lived experience has uh affirmed to be true about what you’re saying and especially that relationship to Ritual
(29:42) and structured self-care and predictability how essential that is at a certain stage and then how essential it is to disrupt that at a certain stage and probably then again and you reference this sort of variable amount of energy you know that we might be working with as one of the predictors of where you are in that pattern disrupting process and you have helped me to learn about one of these practices called recapitulation that I have been engaging myself um have actually talked to my daughters uh even with you know with
(30:21) attribution to the many sources of this kind of information including you in my uh existence put it into my latest book reclaimed woman I think it’s that important just even as like a lay practitioner as a way to dip a toe in and I’d love to you know speak a little bit even just conceptually obviously we’re not going to like teach teach it now but conceptually like what is this idea you referenced of erasing the past why would anybody want to do that and how would you meet the objection that even one of my daughters brought up
(30:56) which is like I want that memory right so I’d love for you to speak a little bit to that too yeah you don’t actually get rid of the memory but you purify it and you make it accessible in a magical way so that it’s not Blueprinting you but it’s in fact it’s a it’s like a transformative experience in which you free yourself from the heaviness of your what we call self-importance you become the Observer of the self instead of the self and you become part of the Creator Force by doing so and you witness yourself as a projection
(31:31) everything is a projection and they’re so powerful that they hijack our imagination and keep us from becoming Lucid so shamans go back into their memories and reclaim their useful energy that is sitting there waiting for them it’s not doesn’t mean the memory goes away in fact it becomes more clear and more crisp so it’s like devastatingly so that your memory is almost par emotional you become really move it’s a it’s a miracle actually Shaman’s locked a miracle with this it’s it’s a means to reclaim your power cuz your useful energy in your
(32:05) imagination is your power your creativity is your power your ability to be fluid and and have a what we call no mind to be in pure feeling that’s what a child is in they’re just in pure feeling we can do that in fact we can do that even better than a child now because we’ve got all these other gifts we’ve developed boundaries intuition and stuff so women especially have an advantage over men when it comes to this realm of uh reclaiming their energy realizing how powerful their energy is realizing what their energy is
(32:40) capable of doing for Humanity and so it tends to be men that are more willing to do this because women already naturally have access to their intuition and so men are very driven to experience something that there is less familiar but when you you recapitulate you’re just setting up a memory as clear as you can you try to see the details as much as possible so you would choose a recent one to practice with and you just try to go back into it and breathe in your essence that you left in the memory and breathe out anything you took on
(33:15) that wasn’t yours and it’s not a negative thing you would do this with your current partner it’s not you’re not trying to just get rid of bad memories and you’re not getting rid of anything at all you’re just getting back what you left and you’re releasing what is in yours so that your field is your pure luminosity and not others mixed in because we function best when we’re Sovereign and that’s disturbing to the codependent aspect of our longing to be you know in this Disneyland sort of storyline around romance but there’s a much more romantic
(33:52) and Powerful method that’s typically not tapped and it’s in the realm of pure affection when when people can learn to put their attention towards something really beautiful like the ocean and let it be as and they become one with the ocean as they’re observing it together you know that’s in the realm of Tantra that’s beyond sex that’s in the realm of pure ecstasy if you can tap it but it’s hard it’s hard for men to get into that level of energy and not then want to then Devour the feminine and that as she’s opened up and so then he
(34:26) becomes frustrated if she’s trying trying to guide him and you know so this dance that we have that’s why we want to recapitulate is go back into especially our sexual history and breath and get our energy back that was powerfully exchanged through love making and then if you can learn to do that you have the attention for it getting your energy back from those deeper more Altered States and you start to develop the capacity to focus and so this is uh I don’t teach meditation I teach focus focus on the abstract on the energetic
(34:58) on the feelings move out of the mind and into pure feeling and your body will guide you and there’s movements I teach that make this easier to do because they’re designed they’re they’re tapped from these Altered States they they’re discovered naturally so the recapitulation goes hand in hand with the movements and it leads to becoming lucid and then Lucidity leads to being able to travel and see in witness things and other layers of the onion that are so beautiful that your purpose becomes changed forever once you’ve had
(35:30) experiences that are uh in the energetic realm then you know everything kind of becomes equal like it doesn’t matter if you’re on vacation or at a at an office job uh everything becomes psychedelic nothing is solid anymore and so you have to get really grounded or you’ll become unstable so we we we we put oursel in this situation in order to evolve and so it’s not going to be easy it requires that we learn to to deal with the reality of where we’re at energetically and the recapitulation is as magical and as simple as it sounds there’s great
(36:09) resistance to it because the programming that is running knows that it’s a solution that it it will not all be able to control you eventually if you really follow this uh this direction so if we can come out of the shame and guilt around where we’re at then we can just be and accept that we need to take small steps instead of try to change ourselves so completely overnight because there’s like it’s like a rubber band effect you go to try to make massive change often there will be just such so much pressure to to go back
(36:47) to where you were that it can be like a backfire but there’s no such thing as failure so any any exploration into these things is is is just even if it’s just for 5 minutes or an hour or one day you know it’s okay to take a break from the things that are keeping you heavy and start to move into the lighter Realms and trust that you’ll be able to ground yourself in new ways so it’s a dance with expansion and contraction so I like to sweat I live in Miami and I don’t always eat locally and fun fact I don’t love supplements like
(37:26) capsule supplements so because I I also know that mineral deficiency is a major driver of imbalance weight gain excessive hunger and fatigue I love finding and experimenting with therapeutic foods that I can incorporate into my routine so I’m super excited about samat seamos that my friend found at a local farmers market it’s small batched seamos that comes from Caribbean divers so the company Works directly with these divers Who harvest only the cleanest sources so it’s never creepily farmed or anything like that it has over
(38:04) 90 bioavailable vitamins and minerals and it’s my new favorite addition to my self-care regimen so I take a tablespoon once or twice a day and I wash it down with lemon water it actually tastes like nothing which is fantastic and I noticed the shift and how I felt after one week specifically in terms of digestion so I’d love to share it with you they’re offering 10% off for yall with the code Kelly 10 so check out the Lincoln show [Music] notes so you referenced you know the power of sexual experiences that we’ve
(38:41) had with others to even I don’t know if this is the language you you would use but like arrest dimensions of our energy in in the past and you and I have spoken a bit about this concept because I also Came Upon This Reclamation of Eros notion even though I spent most of my previous uh career focused on just Health Reclamation this this was the place I was delivered to after I recognized that you can you know emancipate yourself from you know a triangulation against your own body with the allopathic system and you can still
(39:21) be arrested in in victimhood what is that about where is the energy then being you know outsourced to and and what is that about what does it have to do with vital force energy Sexual Energy and I know that you have thoughts about deception uh related to Sexual Energy and what it is that the dominant culture would have us think sexual energy actually is versus what you have come to believe that it is which I happen to uh agree with and so I wonder if you could unpack that a bit for folks yeah totally yeah it’s amazing
(39:58) Discovery is that our Sexual Energy and our dreaming energy are one and the same and because this is a dream and because the benefits of becoming a conscious dreamer are so significant to our Evolution again especially for women because they have what Shaman call a dreaming box the womb this lifegiving organ is also a dream giving organ it can dream forward realities women have the capacity to create realities structur in a way that are different than men so there’s a reason why the world is under hypnosis in the way that it is and
(40:34) the different movements that were the agendas that stripped women of their power and men so we we get to reclaim our natural way of being which is challenging but sexual energy is so powerful and depending on how you were conceived will determine how to take care of yourself so there’ll be for those apprentices who were conceived in a way that was less than ideal it will be more challenging for them to save Sexual Energy in order to become a lucid dreamer but people who were born with a lot of energy because of the nature of
(41:10) the conception and life does begin its conception I mean it’s even beforehand a child chooses the mother they call it a shining and that shining then will guide the mother to the father and without fail the mother will go to the father that the child chose even if it’s in a way that would appear to be barbaric like rape so these these contracts are not it’s hard to explain but yeah these these things happen everything happens for a reason and for us not to us nothing is negative it’s just the dream and Nightmares are real but they’re
(41:46) transformable it’s high risk High reward if you’re given a really difficult entry but that just means the more potential of power you will have if you’re able to transform that story into is something liberating and that frees us from victim Consciousness 100% there’s no way to live in victim Consciousness if you understand that so our ability to use our Sexual Energy creatively is key for women they can come out of the fog that men put them under right by becoming capable of understanding The Exchange that occurs what men get from women and then
(42:23) there can be a relationship that’s developed that isn’t unconscious of that power exchange and then this incredible respect can be developed to where there’s just capacity to use that energy to journey together into other it’s a different level of intensity it’s you can change speeds inside of your perceptual relating while you’re inside of Love Making and it’s it’s it’s very Dynamic there’s also the benefits to all different types of sex I’m not saying Shaman only do this really Evol uary type of dancing with with each other but
(43:02) being able to have an expansive array of experience within all of that um but yeah usually an apprentice of a especially men will be uh on a Vision Quest they will be told to be celibate for a period of time in their life in order to learn how to move that energy from the genitals up into the other chakras and down again I’m not here to teach Ascension I’m more about descension descending into the mother I think the religious programming is keeping people from being in their lower chakras and they’re not dealing with the
(43:35) shadow work and they’re trying to move past it without feeling their feelings and this leads to a lot of gender confusion is people aren’t going into the wound and they’re trying to come up with a solution that would make them never have to face the wound so we have a lot of dropping in that we need to do and I think everybody that’s teaching these Christ consciousness streem sort of it’s just another spiritual version of religion that isn’t going to lead us to our power we need to go into our depths into our pain into our our
(44:09) longing and our desire and not be afraid of what we truly want and so Shaman say that denying yourself something is the greatest Indulgence that you can do right so this goes against this idea of discipline that you should avoid certain things it’s actually you should do the thing that you want to do get to know how it makes you feel don’t be afraid of it don’t let it turn into a monster don’t get caught in the shame and guilt cycle of what you desire experience it but what you really really desire is to live a really
(44:43) incredibly powerful life so if you can give yourself permission to go after the things you want it will lead to you knowing yourself which will lead to the truth and those things that look all dark and shadowy or whatever to people they’re not they’re just an aspect of your being that needs to understand itself it’s your you know whatever the child that didn’t get its needs me is trying to express itself in some form once you give it room to express itself you know then that Sexual Energy isn’t all repressed Sexual Energy gets
(45:16) repressed and it leads to so much confusion especially for men then they get they get all that energy gets caught and then they they feel so shameful about their perversion that starts to develop right so how do we heal our relationship with our desire well we got to get honest with what we truly want and it took me a long time to to stand in the true feeling of what I wanted I like wouldn’t give myself permission even to stay in that feeling the more I was able to allow myself to admit to what it was and stay with it then my
(45:49) dream started to come true so it’s just it’s like it’s that powerful and it’s that simple but it’s not easy there’s so much depth and and profundity to what you just shared there’s a couple of neon lights that I want to uh frame around the extraordinary truth than you’ve just dropped in our laps so one is this is exactly where I have come to about the role of Shame being a driver of addiction being a driver of suffering and struggle and the fragmentation that keeps us disconnected from Source Spirit God what whatever it is that you want to
(46:29) imagine you are animated by and from right so what you’re suggesting is I call them shameful desires right what you’re suggesting is to develop intimacy with the desire that actually is already inhabiting Your Vessel go into it explore it and learn about it rather than donating precious energy to the resistance right and it sounds sort of like okay but to actually do that work means that you have to be able to hold the energy of shame in your system and that’s I think a part of why these this kind of a recapitulation exercise
(47:11) this idea of strengthening your field it’s not just so that you can go out and and you know sort of I don’t know achieve status in the world I mean I probably would confer that on some level also but it’s so that you can hold the storm inside that arises when you simply bring awareness and focus as as you said to what is already there it’s it sounds so so simple and the shame that we experience around our native desires it’s a it’s it’s a self- fragmenting vector of of energy and one thing that you brought into my field that I had
(47:50) literally never thought about in my entire life was the role of our conception right as a productive psychiatrist who treated you know pregnant women in my entire career as a mother of Two And as a human born from two other humans I had literally never thought about the significance in terms of my relationship to my own Sexual Energy themes that have Arisen in my you know romantic erotic life and where my uh shame points Rob right so they’re not Universal right they are very personal um and they can get you know sort of
(48:29) reinforced through dominant Dogma as you referenced um you know let’s say religious uh in nature when you say conception I want to just sort of like highlight this because this is such a big point it’s actually what why I wanted to have this public conversation with you because it’s that big a deal for for for people if you still have living parents learn what you can about the the literal actual sex that took place that resulted in you not everybody probably can access this kind of information I I can and could and it
(49:07) was like a revelation I mean it literally explains my entire journey to learn about the the sex that my parents had that resulted in the pregnancy that was me right and so we think about birth I’ve been very focused and very passionate about the imprint of birth on someone’s entire existence their Rel relationship ship to power their mother’s relationship to the system their father’s emasculation like all of this stuff right but I never really thought about tracking it back to actual conception so I just want to see if
(49:38) there’s anything else you want to add about that because you you referenced in your teaching a phrase that uh K apparently used called the you know people who are the product of a board and like what is that right what does that mean about just if we could paint a caricature of about how it is that you live your life then like it isn’t that significant thank you yeah such a it is such a significant thing to discover and tap into and through the recapitulation you could actually reach the moment of your conception without
(50:08) having your parents to talk to which is very Advanced but this is the benefit of recapitulation is that you could go back to the womb I’ve gone back to my six-month year old self and experienced the perception that I was having at 6 months which is profound like it’s so dreamy it’s so beautiful to be in that in that place and to have my 46y old Consciousness to be inside of that 6mon year old being that that merging right so you could even recapitulate your ancestors Memories We the akashic records is what people call it but it’s
(50:42) just it’s just that we’re we’re all connected everything’s available it’s just a matter of focus that’s what longdistance healers do they focus so precisely that they’re um able to you know move Beyond this concept of space and time which is just a projection a concept that keeps us in a linear construct shamans free themselves from the linear for a reason not because they’re necessarily daring or escaping they’re more just starting to realize that they’re unless you go trying to move around you’re not going to notice
(51:18) your chains and we want to discover what our chains are made of well they’re made of our blueprint and that’s what we’re talking about here is cons ception that’s our blueprint what happened when you were conceed because it makes it has everything to do with everything else that’s ever going to happen to you and if you can make peace with your blueprint you can out you can you can get creative with it if you can admit to your blueprint instead of trying to compare yourself to somebody else’s blueprint and wish you had someone
(51:47) else’s blueprint then you can really uh be humbled by your limitations and you start to become creative based on your predicament and we are in a predicament this is a real opportunity for each one of us and our ability to get focused and and heal uh has to do with our ability to understand our self which is to know our Essence which is to know where we came from and so we’re very much we we tend to turn into our parents unless we liberate oursel from the same forces that they couldn’t liberate themselves from if they had
(52:24) liberated themselves from we’d be totally different people a different conversation but because they didn’t we’re being forced to do work that they avoided passed on to us but it’s an honor to be the black sheep and to be seeing the program for what it is and to be you know even having to free ourself from our parents at times and stop communicating with them because of the projecting that they do shamans break ties with people because they can’t afford to risk the heaviness and the energetic implement or impact you know
(53:01) that that that’s going on and there’s hopefully a more harmonious way to do that than having to cut people off but sometimes it requires that we we sever ties energetically and physically because it’s just so difficult to heal and without time apart from certain energies that affect you my I had a friend that was conceived on LSD both his parents were on LSD you know is this a challenging life he’s he had a lot of energy it was really difficult to stay out of trouble uh really difficult to he witnessed his father get shot down in an
(53:36) intersection during a drug deal combat you know like those types of blueprints affect you it takes real challenging work in the recapitulation field to balance all that out in terms of like an illustration how would it look comparatively let’s say if if somebody was the product of just sort of their parents like rolling over in bed kind of a thing or maybe they were like you know drunk at the end of a party or or whatever versus like sacred intentional like ravishment you know that then resulted in in human life like how would
(54:14) that those individuals lives potentially in their relationship to their own energy be contrasted the people that were products of a bored are make the best like uh little slave workers they always do their job they’re not looking to do much more you know they’re they’re easy to they’re just predictable and so it’s really difficult actually for those of us that were given a lot of energy in conception because it’s hard to fit into a world where everybody’s willing to do what they’re told it takes it it can be really actually
(54:47) traumatizing yeah so the shamanic teachings come in really valuable here because you know but yeah when a child is born in magical ways and can received with a lot of beautiful Omens and signs and there’s like the parents are conscious of the spirit and all these visitations with animals are happening and the child is just being blessed as through in the belly it’s a really beautiful thing I caught both of my children my wife and I were really aware of of how powerful these Spirits were coming in and so we took them into the
(55:18) mountains as kids and taught them about silence and showed them how to connect to the mother and told them stories that open their consciousness up you know magical interactive storytelling in the forest where they saw true possibility you know and and so they are they are forever cursed and blessed you know to be different and they will be there will things that will happen to them in their life that are just unavoidable that spirit’s not going to let them just fall into some unconscious spell because there’s just so much support around them
(55:54) energetically so I have a lot of helpers in my life people that have died who are now guiding me and other types of beings that are helping me from that are interdimensional who are very helpful to have as helpers so it that’s what the difference is is that it’s more likely these people become religious or dogmatic if they didn’t have a lot of energy but shamans do encounter people who were a product of a board and that are willing to build their energy back up and the shamanic teachings that I offer are perfect for that they’re not
(56:29) that hard to do uh they’re just movements that anybody can do and if you do them enough you’ll start to get understand how to get your essence back from your past and you’ll start to be able to build chi in a really powerful way and you’ll appreciate it more my challenge is things come really easy for me so I don’t have to work hard at all that’s my biggest obstacle how can I get myself in a situation where I’m going to have to really just make use of my resources because I just basically allow I just trust to know that everything’s
(56:59) going to happen and it does and that’s powerful but we all have holes in our Consciousness and we all have areas where you know so I’m so fortunate I was raised in love I was raised in two parents that just totally love me so whether the whether sex was super hot or not is is maybe one story but it’s that affection that you were raised in you know how much they cared about each other that’s even probably more Dynamic than like the massive orgasms but to get all of it it would be incredible for a child as it should be so I have one last
(57:34) question Joel which is you I’ve heard you reference this concept of uh the place of no pity I think it was and I don’t think many audiences would be ready to uh to hold such an idea especially when we are mostly spiritually virtue signaling around compassion and empathy and everybody’s in empath and everything else when you referenced that I thought wow that is a powerful way to address what I believe is the recollection of one’s projections and the way to tap into Sovereign power that actually allows us to offer our
(58:22) hearts and love and energy with discretion to to others in the world near and and far and and a lot of what I’ve uh explored around uh the demystification of altruism and philanthropy and uh service oriented impulses even through obviously my own experience has led me to exactly this same place so I’d love to just like drop this bomb and then we’ll close out yes yeah self-pity is you know uh self-importance and we’re so focused on self and we judge self and therefore we judge others and then we think that compassion is that we like are
(59:03) empathetic to people’s situation we feel bad for them and that that’s healthy but it’s a projection actually it’s you not trusting their power and uh you feeling worried about them that is you projecting your own story and and sometimes we we we don’t really wish our friends to be successful because we’re secretly jealous and there’s all these underlying unconscious things that get caught and that’s just so much projection that it’s toxic once you realize it Shaman’s reach these moments where they just become indifferent and
(59:37) there’s so much freedom in that and it’s not it’s not negative it’s it’s neutral it’s like a everything matters and nothing matters at the same time and those two contradictions will always be there in everything because we are in a world that is based on that on that that dualism but it doesn’t mean that it can it needs to limit us so a mother bear when a child is in danger Will discover resources within her being and she will reach the place of no pity because she’ll need she’ll do what’s needed and that doesn’t require being offended you
(1:00:11) can’t be offended and be affected so if you’re offended your energy is you’re handing power over outside of yourself and you need that power you need your attention you need your focus if a lion was chasing you in the jungle you wouldn’t be offended a lion the lion just doing what Lions do but if somebody tries to make you wear a mask you know you’re likely to get offended and then even have thoughts about that person for days on end you might even still be in their in they’re in your field because they got to you they got your Center
(1:00:44) just by upholding a position a perception that is to you a threat to to a transum threat to our reality and it it is it’s disturbing energy and that’s why we’re in these times is come to terms with how all these little agents of the Matrix they’re just going to keep doing what they’re told and they’re very dangerous to us and so we have to stop being offended somehow so that we can be strategic on how to walk in this obstacle course more energetically Dynamic ways uh without getting and and the world will open up to that when
(1:01:18) you’re in your power and your in your magnetism the solutions we provided for you you don’t even have to think about them like I didn’t want to go on the airport thing where you put your hands and and I was just like but I didn’t have time and so I was just going to do it you know and then this guy just comes and opens one of those old school ones and just say it just lets me in alone and shuts it just picks me and has me go through it and shuts it like these things will happen to you all the time when you start
(1:01:49) to you know live impeccably you take really good care of yourself then the universe will take care of you so reaching the face of no pity is simply being able to see through the fact that everything is a movie everything we’re watching is scripted it’s kind of disturbing to observe that and become conscious of it but when the benefits of reaching the state of indifference is that you stop projecting your concern onto others you start trusting people and yourself you come out of judgment you start to see the victim
(1:02:23) Consciousness in everyone which is maybe a reflection they don’t want to see but you’re giving them the most honest and important thing that you could do is is is reflecting something that most people aren’t willing to do so not everybody’s going to love you when you’re you know you’re going to struggle with some people who are going to feel triggered and then project onto you because you’re being a mirror in their life but that’s part of how you are going to learn too is how that affects you how when other people do that then what does that how
(1:02:56) does that take your Center and then see you reach the place of no pity again and you start to really have what true compassion for people who don’t know about the place of no pity because it’s so liberating and Detachment is just the absence of attachment right so if you’re attached to outcome then you’re going to be offended if you’re detached then you realize everything’s happening for you as a lesson and then there’s so much freedom in that because you start moving for the lesson rather than walking away from it
(1:03:29) or trying to backpedal we realize how efficient it is to be moving forward rather than resisting or backpedaling and and there’s just a lot more energy available to people who walk toward these things it’s all the difference in the world actually to move forward um and so in the martial arts you never you never go backwards it’s it’s always forward it may Look Backwards but energetically it’s a forward energetic because of how powerful magnetically we are when we’re in that state of attention and intent thank you I
(1:04:03) absolutely loved this conversation and I consider you such a powerful Ally and guide and friend and I am excited to share this wisdom and also feel affirmed it’s like funny right when you arrive through your your bumbling you know ridiculous full of seeming mistakes life to the these very profound truths that are then held by a lineage you’ve never heard of you know and so for me it’s been really really delightful to recognize the the Synergy of our you know respective experiences and the truths that we’ve come upon
(1:04:42) including that the truth is something to be lived and embodied uh rather rather than przed perhaps but this conversation was really intended to be that kind of transmission you know that you offered me the first time I heard you speak and I have no doubt that it has been that so thank you I want to make sure um people know where to find you yeah we’ll share that in the show Notes too yeah thank you Kelly it’s been a really beautiful conversation and so glad we’ve met and have had time to connect over these last
(1:05:12) few months it’s been really strong and um really glad we got to do this I yeah I’m teaching a course my second course coming up May 5th and May 7th I’d love for people to inquire and I do free consultation on it if you’re curious beginners are totally welcome it’s very uh available to whatever level you’re at and there’s really strong people in there that I think everyone would benefit from meeting besides myself so reach out my email is just for Direction 77@gmail.
(1:05:48) com so f r d CT o NS [email protected] my YouTube channel is called perceiver which can be found at sunwolf 1111 and um yeah just feel free to email me and we’ll connect that way I will get a website going here shortly and start stream rolling more and more horses and I’m going to be doing on uh in-person workshops uh a variety of places over the in the US and in South Africa and Mexico and really looking forward to people that are called to come and and do these intensive trainings they’re very very life-changing and powerful and but my one-on-one sessions are really um
(1:06:25) significant to to do as well so feel free if you feel called to mentor and I work with couples that help with communication sometimes the tools that I’ve been given from the teachers that have helped my wife and I I’m sharing now and being anchored by those teachers so I’m also a network for some really powerful resourceful women that I’ve been training with for many years so if anybody feels called to train with the people I trained with and or am training with um I’m help happy to happy to recommend uh female support systems that
(1:06:59) are out there not as many men yet but I’m I’m I will eventually be recommending more men as I as I train them so much love everybody I appreciate this time Kelly it’s been magical thanks John [Music] there [Music]
