(00:00) [Music] I’m Dr Kelly Brogan you may know me as a New York Times bestselling author of a book with an exploding pill on the cover Renegade psychiatrist pul dancer or honorary member of the disinformation Dozen what can I say I’m a born provocator I’ve spent most of my recent life exposing deceptions connecting dots and discovering the secret places my inner victim is still waiting to be liberated and now I feel called to help you reclaim all of your parts your health your sexuality your power and your expression so that you can finally
(00:41) truly own yourself I want to ignite in you that inner knowing and the pulsing Vitality that lives beneath your disempowerment disconnection and resentment so that you can audaciously courageously and playfully alchemize your struggle into the specific pleasure of Who You Are this is Reclamation radio hi and welcome back to Reclamation radio I am Dr Kelly Brogan and I am welcoming back the one the only mama Gina I am so so so so excited I just adore you and I’m so excited to have this conversation because I feel like it’s an important
(01:20) one I feel like even this moment that we’re creating together is going to expand the permission field for the women who are listening to get real with them themselves about where they are in their lives especially if you are an entrepreneur if you’re a girl boss if you are a hustler if you have been making your beautiful mark on the world and there are so many things that you and I can talk about Regina today though we decided to focus on the subject of burnout and specifically how it manifests for women who are pursuing
(02:00) their passions and their dreams so I wanted to start off if we could with just a sort of overview of your career like of your life as a woman who is influencing impacting contributing to the story of what it is to be a woman and like what that’s looked like I know a lot about your trajectory and I know many do who are listening but as you look back over the journey like how would you describe what it’s been like okay I’m going to answer that but first I just want to say I’m so [ __ ] thrilled to be on this podcast
(02:40) with you and my deepest hope first of all is that everyone who is listening to it that it will strike that cord at exactly the right time to be that kind of like Bell that will invite expansion into a level of self-trust self-love self-care that is each woman’s right each woman’s birth right as much as pleasure is each woman’s birth right and I’m grateful for you for all the tracks you’ve laid and I want to make sure that we talk about that how we’ve intersected this time and I’m grateful to just have you as a sister on this path so let’s
(03:22) see like I’m sure many of your listeners are pioneers of some form or another either you have an idea you’re giving birth to or a mission or you feel that there’s something even greater for you that you want to live into as a woman and it’s such a time for that and that was certainly the case for me when I began I had a lot of abuse patterns in my childhood like violence in my home that impacted me from the time I was a baby but I didn’t realize it because it was just home so somehow I got it in my head and into my imagination that it was
(04:04) mine to set this right in my lifetime and once I learned about well I’d always I had a relationship with the Goddess from the time I was a little girl I think probably as a result of the abuse that my imagination opened up to include the potential for a divine feminine that was always very present in my lifetime I was always thinking somewhere somewhere on this Planet she must be celebrated and I will find her but of course that that was not the case but I eventually found my way through connecting with pleasure literally
(04:42) through for the very first time when I was about 30 where I was like oh sensuality and pleasure is what is going to restore the feminine and as soon as I felt that and experienced that I was like okay that’s my job that’s my task like I have got to tell every woman that within her is a drop of divinity and that’s where the divine feminine has been hiding inside of every single woman and she can only connect to that divinity when she experiences pleasure in her body and of course we’re not taught that we’re taught to take care of
(05:23) our husbands our fathers our family our bosses we’re told to work late and get there early and our kids and but we’re never taught to connect to pleasure ourselves and so once I made that little connection within my body I was like oh [ __ ] this is the most pivotal key and I’ve got to do something about this with my life and so I ended up leaping in a very big directional change I went from being like a little researching hermit living in a studio apartment in New York City to living in a sex commune for five
(05:59) years where I studied it was at that time called Moore University it’s Lafayette moous incredible training to learn about orgasm to learn about pleasure to learn about the differences between men and women just beautiful like Baseline for me and when I left that school uh and that community and eventually had my daughter Maggie I thought I must do something to awaken this on behalf of women and that’s been my career trajectory for the past 30 years of starting the school of womanly arts in my living room because I wanted to make sure that I was
(06:40) contributing to making the world a place that could handle who and what a woman is and I knew that I had to start with women because women are the ultimate leaders in the directional changes of our culture and we are the greatest untapped natural resource on this planet it was up to us to give voice to the Daily requirements of the care and feeding of the feminine and an understanding of the feminine body and how it differs from the masculine and how we can step fully into our voice and our presence and our power and our
(07:19) surrender and our Partnerships and our leadership whatever that is for every woman so the school started with a handful of women in my living room and then grew to to thousands and thousands where I’ve literally taught over 880,000 women and my books have you know hundreds of thousands of copies have been sold so I worried up like a badass powerful [ __ ] and went on a spree to liberate the the masses and I and I did that yes you did yes you did woman and that’s why I love having this conver it’s such an honor to have this
(07:59) conversation with you specifically because I consider you you know in ways a mentor in not only content but also form like right meaning the form of your career your business and I think many would look at what you have achieved from your living room and say you know this woman has made her mark this woman has reached the summit she has achieved what most female entrepreneurs who are interested in marrying service and purpose and prosperity can only dream of and I you know I’d love for you to talk a bit about the shadow of that right
(08:45) like what is the untold story what is the lived experience because you clear I mean your enthusiasm is one of the most lovable aspects of you you know your enthusiasm just bubbles forth It’s so clear that your passion has never waned for one second so this is not a matter of like I just am kind of bored you know with what it is that I’m doing so if you have all these pieces still in place what could possibly be you know beneath the veil right like what could be uh some of the the less talked about I’ve only started to talk about this myself
(09:21) and and it’s only because it only started to come to my own awareness that I was experiencing levels of burnout even though my life and my work on paper looked absolutely like a dream right but there’s something about female entrepreneurship that taxes our systems right so I I’d love to hear from you about what started to creep up for you right like what was some of the shadowy experience that you began to have more recently in your career even though everything is going just fine yeah first of all I think that all of us have you
(10:02) know oh hello kitty cat it’s always nice when a [ __ ] shows up you know when I’m around I take it as a compliment and a sign from that yes you’re calling in the [ __ ] I think all of us have hearts chapters and verse of our childhoods that can haunt us and certainly for me the way I adapted from the hurt and the pain and the loneliness and the fear that chased me my whole childhood was I became a warrior and I thought I will spare others from the hurt and I will bring connect women to this portal of pleasure and their own experience of
(10:48) their own Divinity and so in doing so you know when you’re Galloping with your Lance and your sword and your armor you don’t have to connect with all the pain from your past and what happened to me was right before covid I stopped doing huge events like events of a couple thousand people because it was burning out my team and it was just it’s I just got so many signs from the great [ __ ] in the sky time to stop that so and then right around that time or just before that time I met Peter my partner which I have always lived a life driven
(11:31) by desire right I longed to start this school I got to do it I got to scale it I got to go from you know a little clueless hippie chick to running a multi-million dollar business like that was never in the cards for this creature but that happened you know and then my longing was to fall in love and to be love to both give and receive love to really surrender to partnership and I met Peter and through the ups and the downs and the ins and the outs of our partnership I finally have gotten to a place where I feel safe with a man for the very first
(12:09) time in my life and almost I didn’t know this was happening at first but all of the trauma and all of the abuse patterns that they banged on the door and they were like hey you pushed us away for your whole lifetime que we are here now and we are taking over until you reckon with us and love us back to ourselves and so I was experiencing depression anxiety sleeplessness brain fog I literally could not put one foot in front of the other I who had been so deliriously competent and I used that word deliberately I was really good at that
(13:00) one thing but in terms of deeply connecting with myself or others in an intimate way in terms of really knowing how to be in Partnership to connect to myself to own all those parts of me that I had chosen to disconnect from to preserve myself as a child all of them wanted to find home with me and at first I was just like I’ll do anything not to feel this I will do anything but I couldn’t and so I started working with an integral family systems therapist David coats is his name great therapist and started to see
(13:45) like oh of course I would be shattered as little three-year-old experiencing abuse or a a younger part of me and I began to see there are parts that want my love and I have not given these parts my love I think this could sound kind of crazy to a podcast listener but I have to say to myself as well I couldn’t believe that there was this huge part of me that I had overlooked or that there was a process to reclaim this part and that’s when I reached out to you because I was like help me so [ __ ] up now like I
(14:27) cannot even have a thought and I don’t and I know you know [ __ ] about this and I need your help and at that point you stepped in and you were like oh yeah okay I got you girl and you taught me about the vital mind Reset program and I became your best student well I like to at least WR up there you know and I’m probably on it’s a 44 day cleanse that do Kelly Beren created it’s available online Vital mind reset I cannot recommend it enough it is not hard but it requires a lot of discipline and a lot of self-care and that [ __ ] has [ __ ]
(15:12) changed my life it has changed like brain fog gone depression like you know I don’t want to say evaporating but that combined with the integral family system therapy like this is what you’ve given me the way to take responsibility for my health and well-being at a deeper way than I ever imagined possible and I don’t think there’s a better gift that you could give anyone man or woman but more access to ownership of oneself one’s decisions uh one’s ability to reckon with the human being that they are and and take
(15:55) ownership of Our Lives a more powerful way so I am forever I don’t want to say in your death that’s like a weird thing to say but forever shattered and remade by your courage and your Brilliance and your eyesight and your adventurous Spirit and the Deep Journey that you’ve taken inside of yourself on behalf of yourself as a woman and all the people whose lives you touched thank you I love watching this more than anything in the world you know so so this terrain that you found yourself in is one that I obviously know
(16:32) in my own way personally and so do the women that I make contact with and it is this moment of Readiness to change course in the path even though there’s a huge part that says no just keep going just keep soldiering on just keep doing it the way you’ve been doing it try harder and the Readiness to to change course becomes an initiation right to a new and expanded version of yourself and it almost always asks of us that we soften in a way that feels like it might put us at risk of death right that’s not a joke it feels so
(17:18) counterintuitive especially inside of a culture that values production more than longing you know our values the how we the outcome more than the state of being and myself included I was drinking that Kool-Aid as well and you are like me somebody who has been on for decades right for for decades and now you had this have had this experience of this man coming in offering your nervous system the taste of an exhale all of this and this is so common all of this repressed and ignored overwhelm and arousal nervous system arousal and
(18:07) instability and all of that was able to surface to your awareness and I told you when we talked I don’t I don’t love the terms uh depression and anxiety because I think that there we can be so much more descriptive as women and when you talked about you know the kind this kind of blinding like almost like a million point Point are coming at your face and you can’t see any of them this sense that you can’t perform easily the way that you had you know taken advantage of historically and that you could have taken the bait like so many of us of
(18:47) turning against yourself turning against your body and saying bodies stop doing this Panic thing stop doing this insomnia thing stop doing this brain fog thing and the reframe which you were completely ready to embrace was this is an initiation to my next chapter I mean if if there is like a an awe inspiring thing for me to witness it’s you as as you lead the way just being yourself for so many of us in a in an earlier phase of Life of course it requires an initiation right like of course it requires that you hang on hook the
(19:30) aspects of your identity that are not coming with you in this you know if we want to call it we were talking earlier like a crone phase right if we if we want to look at you as as wisdom keeper and as as somebody who demonstrates to women that surrender is actually an untapped power you know that that we have it’s just another flavor and it turns out that at a certain point you may be invited to to explore that but it requires that your nervous system be ready to hold the vulnerability right because otherwise we’ll just protect
(20:08) like seize up and protect ourselves against it so I wonder because I think about this all the time you know you are a leader in the feminine embodiment space that’s how I you know I think of you and I have observed that empowered Health Consciousness and this kind of radical responsibility in the form of life style medicine is a bit of a blind spot often right so like I wonder if you could speak to like what is what are the dots that you’ve connected now and why do you think they might have been hard to connect like why do you think you
(20:42) might have been somebody who could have turned against yourself and said I love you body your experience of pleasure is so important but if you do things I don’t want you to do then I’ll be recruiting a doctor to subdue you you know you could have gone that route you know because if you’re not focused on done this the way I have been obsessively for you know 15 years then it’s easy to take the bait right so what do you think about that blind spot in in your Comm your community meaning collegially like the community of
(21:11) feminine embodiment leaders and speakers and teachers for me I didn’t realize how much of my programming as a rescuer you know I I think it gurus or leaders we’re all so [ __ ] up basically the most why would we do these crazy things like you know create big movements and see changes if there wasn’t some kind of like something we were fleeing from in my case I was fleeing from this historic abuse patterning in my family that I experienced from the time I was a baby but I so I just was like it was a way for me to escape but on my pathway of
(21:58) Discovery in my research and exploration of you know how to heal both myself and the larger culture I encountered sort of self-taught and researched ancient goddess traditions because you know prior to 5,000 years ago was the divine feminine that was worshiped alongside the Divine masculine like there was more indigenous cultures believe in the great mother the divine feminine or the goddess and the philosophical perspective of that is quite different than all of the masculine patriarchal religions which are primarily that there is a right and
(22:45) a wrong and if you are wrong you can redeem yourself or you know sin and you have to repent and so forth like their duality in those religions and the divine feminine which you know was we were worshiping the divine feminine for tens of thousands of years prior to patriarchy and that perspective was that there was holy in everything there was sacred in everything that when the day is gorgeous and sunny that is as sacred a day as when it’s torrential rain and downpour that there each is a face of the Divine and this perspective penetrated
(23:34) me and shifted me and impacted the way that I created my curriculum because I started to notice that the nature of the feminine you know just like a mother loves every single drop of every single one of her babies and you know there is nothing that that child could do that would stop that love and that’s a different than the patriarch or religions and so I began to extend that in my work and recognize that it was when a woman could connect to her erotic nature that that connection could allow her to find the
(24:15) Perfection within herself no matter what was going on in her life you know if she was failing in her career according to her standards if she could connect To Her Sacred sensual she could see that she was on the path to the next adventure that this was neither good or bad it was what was remaking her into what was unfolding for her next so part of my curriculum I called it the cortison journey because cortison were women probably from the 14th through the 19th century who played with this living OS in their lifetime that allowed them
(25:00) to transcend the culture that they lived in in a very potent way and I thought well those that learning transposed to now could be quite useful so in creating that particular curriculum I was able to both learn myself and to teach a woman that instead of looking at her divorce as wrong she could look at it as if it was absolutely perfect and the right next step for preparing her for her unfolding and ever expanding life and the way she was going to impact others in the world and watching a woman shift from finding
(25:39) herself wrong or finding her body wrong or finding her aging wrong or finding her weight wrong to falling in love with who she was and the potency of that transformation I was like whoa this is profound and then for me personally I realized after I met Peter and after I ground to a halt with my depression and that you don’t like calling depression bu that is the [ __ ] truth that’s where I was I was like I cannot find the perfection in that I cannot I’m wanting I will do anything I just like give me whatever
(26:16) that is a Prozac a valum I’ll take anything not to feel this and that’s why I called you because I thought if anyone could show me the perfection in anxiety in depression in sleeplessness it could possibly be you because I could not take my own work into this piece of my existence on my own I needed your Sisterhood I needed the fact that you had been down those roads before I needed to know that there were deeper ways of taking responsibility for myself for my life for my choices than I had considered or comprehended I needed your Sisterhood
(26:59) and your work so I’m really grateful because then you taught me like oh [ __ ] it’s like it starts with what I put in my mouth if I’m going to eat a GMO I am gonna [ __ ] myself up or if I am not going to choose organic brass fed free range like I’m going to contribute to the problem rather than assist myself at climbing in a different direction of choosing my own Vitality rather than what I was unconsciously doing so I think I hope that answered your question I will stand in your corner supporting your intuition and belief even if it’s
(27:45) small and quiet that you were never damaged goods and you’re not now and to reframe that the ways in which you thought you were weak or Beyond hope are actually where your heroin’s Journey Begins I can show you that you have symptoms because you are a canary in the coal mine exquisitely sensitive to misalignment with your lifestyle relationships and patterns that you’re rightly sensitive to wrong living and from this sensitivity when properly regarded honored and cared for will emerge your greatest gift and the most
(28:20) powerfully vital version of you that the world is actually waiting for so with simple accessible changes in a short short period of time you can feel more resilient in the face of criticism conflict and judgment you can experience less drama and patterns of what the [ __ ] in your life and you can experience a calm body with clear signals that you know how to align with so if you’re interested in the last health program you’ll ever do sign up for a consultation to find out how we can help you change your story about health and
(28:55) walk away from symptoms medications and diagnoses for good you can book at Kelly brogen md.com consult or the Linkin show notes is such a beautiful and relatable and inspirational answer because I find this blind spot is where so much of our power as women lies right because of course if we are saying no to ourselves and recruiting an a system to triangulate against ourselves you are in that childhood pattern I’m broken something’s wrong with me I need help not being me right somebody make this experience of who it
(29:37) is that I am mood-wise behaviorally cognitively you know let alone other physical symptoms just go away and so it’s a nihilistic impulse and it’s so normalized that we don’t even notice it and it’s not to say that it’s wrong it’s of course it’s simply just the case that at a certain point in your heroin’s journey you may come to to the fork in the road that says are you going to really stay with yourself this time that reframe you know you were so available for it and I think it’s because you’ve already been teaching this in a hundred
(30:11) other ways uh but to apply it to symptoms is in in some ways the last Bastion but it’s difficult to to do that outside of it being uh you know sort of normalized by somebody else I don’t think that this is easy work to do on your own in vacuum and so that kind of Sisterhood yeah allows you to ignite it within yourself for sure I think also because of let’s say the abuse having started in my family in my body so early like I probably never really had a good night’s sleep or a night’s sleep that wasn’t haunted by Terror or you know
(30:53) some kind of anxiety as a result of the environment that I grew up in right so fast forward all these decades it wouldn’t even occur to me that I could have that without some outside interference I wouldn’t think like I can create that but what you taught me is oh no no no like you can create that you can actually have such a beautiful relationship with your own health and your own body and your own listening and your own Attunement that it could be even better than you can imagine and I I think that’s super exciting it’s one of the you know we we
(31:36) talked about how one of the most crazy making Arenas of you know symptom hood is insomnia right like I have watched insomnia you know turn a woman who was otherwise relatively stable into somebody who thought that she you know might need to be institutionalized for life and this experience I think not a joke yeah but it’s right it’s also driven by the dominant culture that says woman perform right like wake up and have your sharp mind and be ready to slay your T list and you don’t get a day off right showing that you can handle it
(32:14) right so it’s also part of this culture of productivity and achievement and performance that we have allowed ourselves to be in many ways colonized by and choice of words that you use the word col yeah we were you know fertile I guess soil for it and you know I told you that I think there are so many ways to interact with insomnia but the first and most important step is to get to a place where it’s actually not a problem that it’s happening right and you know you could say that about any single symptom but when you can get to that place where
(32:53) it’s not it’s like authentically not a problem it means you the healing is already started because your nervous system system is no longer in fight no longer in this Vigilant state of retaliation against of course yourself that’s the plot twist and you can offer a yes to what is and from that yes which is you know your entire body of work is the yes right it’s like all about this yes to ourselves but that yes also can track in and through these unwanted uh symptomatic experience es and it turns out that that’s actually the sea change
(33:32) that allows for your system start to to Exhale it’s very difficult to find I think even holistic or functional medicine approaches that don’t make symptoms a problem right because even if you’re throwing supplements at it or you know working with different kinds of modalities sometimes the underlying messages can’t wait till this [ __ ] goes away like but if you were to relate to your symptoms as information right like from you to you about you and also as like necessary right there’s a part of you that believes that this symptom is
(34:08) totally necessary or wouldn’t be manufactured that that shift is the beginning of a very different experience of maybe even the same symptom continuing but it’s a different perspective and you know I I I watched you be able to very easily shift into that and I can only imagine it’s because you’re very used to these Concepts right you’re very familiar with these Concepts well what was it that you talk a lot about your Mentor Dr Nicholas Gonzalez was he the dude that brought this depth of ownership and responsibility to your work was he the
(34:49) one that yeah it’s a great question so I uh met him in 2014 I believe and this program vital mind reset was essentially born in 2016 and I had already through my own experience of resolving Hashimoto’s thyroiditis you know sort of crystallized the elements that I could find you know substantial evidence for and I could see okay this is how you create the conditions to send a nervous system a signal of safety so that it can regenerate on its own because your body doesn’t make mistakes and she knows what she’s doing so you create the condition
(35:29) and when I met with him and began shadowing him and working with him I had a I don’t know it’s was a religious experience it was like a a a spiritual infusion of Faith the depths of which I had not yet experienced and it had specifically to do with the capacity that the body has to restore itself to uh put into lasting remission what whatever was you know manifesting and to regenerate and I had to see it through his work where you know for 27 years he was working with otherwise terminal patients you know who had everything
(36:12) from stage four cancers to neurodegenerative illnesses and he was turning their cases around not just for the short term but for decades right so his outcomes were very longterm and I started to see and he have taught me about this that the the faith is all right like the belief is what actually gives way to the Manifest outcome and we know about that right from the placebo effect research and everything else but I needed to Bear witness to it directly and I came away from my work with him with this unshakable Allegiance you know to the
(36:53) human body I never you know I mean all these years since it’s I guess been a decade since I have not experienced fear of the human body the way that we are trained by dominant culture to orient to ourselves so you know when you no longer live afraid that your symptoms are never going to go away or they’re going to get you or they’re going to take you down or you’re going to wake up one day with a lump here or you know or this your hair falling out or insomnia that’s going to last until your deathbed or whatever it
(37:24) is that we tell ourselves when we when we you know take the bait of our own Terror right like our own childhood Terror it doesn’t have anywhere to land in me now and that’s I I have him to thank for that and so I believe that I transmitted you know what he you know gave to me into this program and of course the notorious coffee Animas are you know what he taught me it’s his method that he worked with for 27 years and you know gave me permission to share in this wal Garden of a program and I know that you know cof Animas are now a
(38:06) bit in like pop culture but he you know he was absolutely one of the the forefathers of that detox movement and it’s extraordinarily powerful it’s kind of all you need in many ways I don’t think there are enough inside of our culture yet because I think they are so significant and so poent and so important I mean the detox is 45 days but why would I ever stop doing that I told you it’s only meant to be a month you can stop you know and you can start to reintroduce things and I just think it’s you know it’s it’s awesome you know
(38:42) if you want to keep keep on going you can keep on going yeah like let’s say just in real life do you you do you still do it every day or like once a week or what’s your sketch oh I do enma probably I would say like four times a month oh okay that and he would his patients you know who were dealing with very dramatic you know hero and heroin’s Journeys home to themselves they would do enemas every single day for the rest of their lives and sometimes in some cases twice a day so you know in in a lot of ways the adaptation that I have
(39:21) made where this is meant to be one month of your life and then you tailor it you know you the diet you tailor the detox and the contemplative practice and and whatever intuitively aligns with your sense of self-support that’s my version of it I guess because you know his his was really a bit more hardcore if you will and they’re very powerful you know and i’ I’ve gotten so much feedback over the years from women around how they feel like you know their calm energy this you know sense of of lightness that they
(39:58) feel when they do these kinds of venas that it’s um it’s funny because there’s a lot of resistance of course like so many people are like oh my God I’ll do I’ll do the rest of it but I’m not doing that part that’s just weird and when you can move through that resistance there’s there’s a lot to be experienced there yeah great well I’m grateful to him so that I could have that in my life because it’s certainly transformative that feels really good to hear I wanted to cuz I could pick your brain on this and I and I I’m sure we’re going to be
(40:27) having you know future conversations about this as we both navigate in our own you know generational uh paths here what it is to to balance out our heart’s yearning you know uh for containment and for caretaking and for that exhale with the drive that has been installed in so many of us to have an impact to influence to inspire especially in in both of our cases other women but I wanted to ask you because we talked a little bit about this and I I just feel like it’s important to start to open up conversations about this just about what
(41:03) you think your work habits can I call it that um over the years what they have done to interfere if I could use that word with your mothering and maybe even you know you’re exploring now uh with your relationship right because I’ve started to look at like wow if I could whisper in my own ear you know when my daughter was first born a little something about prioritizing my career for those let’s say first three years of her life and then my second daughter as well if I could have whispered something in my ear when I
(41:42) first got married and was just beginning my multi-decade workaholism trajectory you know I might have just offered the possibility that there there are challenges that are going to be encountered with imagining that you can have it all and imagining that there is really any effective way to or fulfilling way to balance a career with let’s say marriage and and motherhood and so I just wonder like what’s starting to crystallize in your awareness around maybe some of the underd discussed costs of prioritizing our mission as as women
(42:25) it’s such a good question there’s so many ways to look at it right you know when I started my school at the most inconvenient time because Maggie was about one or less Maggie was a few months old and and I felt this like having had a baby girl I was like I felt so connected to my ancestresses like I am part of this lineage and what am I doing to make sure that the world can handle who and what a woman is like I have to start a school to make sure that women have the opportunity to connect with pleasure and to know of their
(43:07) perfection and their majesty and so I had her on one knee and my laptop on the other when she was really little she would call me mommy.com that’s not would be funny if it wasn’t tragic ex so she got to really witness up close like the cost of that and right now I think the what Maggie would love to do Maggie has no interest in having a big career she would love to have a partner that makes it possible for her to stay home and have babies and be present and create a household like that’s all she Longs for the pendulum swings yeah yeah
(43:52) I could not have done it differently than I did it because I was such a driven Fury I have worked my ass off in terms of years of therapy and um working through you know Maggie had an eating disorder for many years like that’s not a simple thing to move through but we just like went to the mat with that with in all the ways uh family therapy individual therapy uh group theer like every kind of work that you could do to the point where she is so great now uh and so emotionally intelligent which who knows maybe if it had been a different
(44:37) kind of life I don’t know if she would have been so grounded and able to handle the challenges of life that are extraordinary for a young woman but I definitely have you know almost like a longing for times that I did not have with her where I could have just been not do at my desk and simply could operate within her rhythms and when we are together like she was just she just went back to London yesterday I unplug completely from whatever I’m doing and we track together in the most beautiful way and she has she’s deeply
(45:26) appreciative of me in a way that she never you know was she was we had a lot more challenges growing during her growing up years let’s say I feel like my life was not well balanced can a working woman with a huge passion have a well-balanced life I don’t know like I don’t know I don’t know the only thing I do know is that I’m not interested in having my life being driven by that now yeah I want my life to be about learning how to be a magnificent partner to Peter because I have a a big learning curve there you
(46:13) know I’m I feel like he is helping me heal my difficulties with intimacy and I also think that my warrior is helping him SAR so I think we we’re working together because he’s such a champion of my vulnerability and he’s teaching me now how to stay connected and how to bring those parts of myself forward and how to surrender more and more to his Direction and his guidance which I was such a you know a solo mercenary right yeah yeah yeah I get it oh my God it’s so relatable and there’s a stage right in our lives where again
(47:08) sacrificing what it is that we imagine would kill us to sacrifice at least that’s how I experience sacrificing my like career identity becomes actually compelling because there’s a yearning right there’s like a this this longing and you know that if you continue being the most competent one in the room when your man is next to you that experience is probably going to be unavailable and you may feel you know some degree of security and familiarity and you’ll be missing something deeper or more alive and I’m just yeah so inspired
(47:49) to hear you recognize this and and again I think it’s in the Z like I think kind of no matter where we are those of us who are ready to cons consider the possibility that our uh experience of intimacy relationally is perhaps more where the Fulfillment lies our priorities are readjusted but there’s a lot of unlearning how goes it with your girls to see this shift happening with you and you know do they feel like they lost time with you or do they feel like this new Evolution within you is giving them much more deeper connection with
(48:33) you like how’s it all going because your girls are younger than Maggie Maggie’s Maggie’s 27 so I want you to imagine what it would be like to never ever be afraid of a symptom again to be comfortable in your body have easeful digestion stable energy to never need a doctor or prescriptions again and to learn the language of your body so that you can read your yes and your no and trust your intuition the truth is that you already have the power to heal anxiety resolve depression and to put an end to all of the enduring effects of
(49:14) stress I’m Dr Kelly brogen an Ivy League trained clinical psychiatrist who once believed so much in the conventional model of medicine that I specialized in prescribing to pregnant and breastfeeding women until I was diagnosed with my first potentially chronic illness and I decided to find a way out and what I learned was how to walk through a life crisis and into your power since then I have published many history making cases of others doing the same through my 44-day health Reclamation program vital mind reset and
(49:51) I’ve learned that despite what I was taught in medical school your lifestyle choices do matter and you can make chronic illness a thing of the past you can also disrupt patterns of struggle in your relationships and in your lifescape through an intentional reset no deprivation gadgets supplements doctors healers or gurus required I’d love to invite you to my free calm body clear mind master class where you will learn three quick win steps that you can take today to E anxiety resolve brain fog and restore your energy inspired by my vital
(50:33) mind Reset Program comment below to check it out yeah my girls are teenagers and I feel very on the one hand grateful that I am moving through this terrain like before they’re out of the house but then also I feel the grief I mean I could cry about it in two seconds that I didn’t align with my choice to become a mother when I did you know and I had my my family my parents available to support and so it almost makes it more difficult to observe the the true nature of the sacrifice because it’s like oh loving family is around everything is
(51:13) fine I’ll just sneak off to work three weeks postpartum and you know I I um was not in a position to really start to work on my own trauma and my own childhood experiences and maybe even my experience Es at that same exact phase in my infancy that would have led me to enjoy working more than being with my daughter you know so many women find it boring you know to be around their own children and it’s more stimulating to work on your adult projects and that is a trauma signal and it’s not one that yeah that we have any ability to really
(51:52) recognize because it’s so normalized and Mom guilt is just part of the deal like no Mom guilt is actually an indication that something is is out of alignment here so yeah they know that I I own my [ __ ] as soon as I see it and so they have watched me take responsibility for prioritizing my career and then I I speak about this in a in a podcast I recorded called choosing motherhood but I prioritized a man who is not their father for eight more years of their childhood and I never prioritized my role as mother so I wouldn’t say
(52:30) prioritize them I would say my role as mother my choice to be a mother was never actually in the foreground it was always just like oh my life is going to continue and then this whole mother thing is also going on so I never really aligned with that choice I would say until about it’s like about a year ago that I had this Epiphany that I want to do that that that actually that that it’s the most joyful aspect of my life life is hanging out with my kids and their friends and laughing and traveling and playing like they are my ticket to
(53:04) play right now and so they are my priority that’s why I’m not dating and I am really beginning to wh down my which is required I I wind up the leadership in my business but wind down my uh attachment to my own career and my identity as an intellectual my identity as you know somebody who has something important to say even in this kind of setting you know it’s um the unwinding of that has been challenging because you I imagine this is similar for you too I don’t spend a lot of hours like at my desk anymore that was the case for a
(53:44) good decade but I that’s not the case now and yet I’m always on I’m always available to my team you know I am in this um energetic I don’t know sort of like uh Dynamic with my business that reminds me of dysfunctional relationships I’ve had in the past where I’m just like you know giving giving giving giving energetically and imagining that at some point it’ll feel okay like at some point it’ll finally feel fulfilling and I don’t know I’m just not sure you know that that’s the case because like you you know I’ve received the beautiful
(54:27) feedback and the accolades and celebration and at a certain point it’s like what matters to me is my the relationship’s in front of me that’s actually what I’m going to be thinking about on my deathbed kind of a thing and that’s actually where I um it’s where I am that’s where I am in my life it’s like my cat’s in front of me you know I’m G to see my kids later and you know if I had a partner that that’s actually what I can sink my teeth into and the rest is yeah pulling on a lot of threads of that rescuer you referred to that
(55:02) conditioning that says I’m going to figure it all out I’m gonna be I’m gonna be the man I never had growing up kind of a thing and so it’s I can feel the unwinding that is being invited perhaps so that I will be ready for a polarized partnership at some point in the future when my kids are out of the house so I really appreciate I love that you’re not dealing with partnership now while there in the house I that’s so smart I did the same thing I think you have we all have limited time and attention and to be able to have the
(55:38) gift of them there is gorgeous and to unfold those parts like literally I I feel like we are this generation of transformation right we did the best we could with the opportunities the gifts the challenges to like live into the fullness of who we are that is constantly shifting and changing you know I think if there was this one Edge that I’ve been able to give Maggie which I hear you give your daughters is you’re transparent about your Transformations like as soon as you realize like oh [ __ ] there’s a piece that I H of myself that
(56:26) I haven’t been taking responsibility for you step you drop it you know you stop drop you roll you change you evolve and I think that’s the greatest gift because it’s going to happen for them in their lifetimes too they’re going to see that a pathway there they were heading down perhaps might not be the most fulfilling or the most expansive and then you’re giving them the flexibility to change gears because you’re willing to do the same thing I remind myself all the time that there’s no statute of limitations
(56:56) on an apology and I’m so glad that that’s the case I mean there will be things from years ago that I will finally have Clarity on and I’ll bring it to their attention and it just feels like it’s organizing what was disordered and I don’t imagine that it will ever be the case that I feel like it’s really truly reparable I mean I think that’s part of the grief that you were referencing even in the early days of Maggie’s life it’s like you can’t actually go back to those they they happened you know they happened and they
(57:31) were formative and important and we made choices and integrating the actual consequences of those choices requires that we acknowledge that they even exist and so that’s sort of you know kind of where I’m at and I’m so grateful that you gave yourself this gift of a reset so that you can Orient towards this next chapter of your experience and really model for us you know what it looks like to allow for surrender and containment and Leadership by your chosen man when you are a woman who can do it all herself maybe even better you know like
(58:13) that’s the belief anyway right and that the elective surrender right the consensual surrender the awareness that you can husband yourself and you have for you know many years very effectively and you just kind of want to try on the Delight of you know experiencing that uh that polarity and that Dynamic I I am so subscribed to your journey because I think there will be a lot that you um have to share and you know reconnecting to yourself in this Fierce loyalty was probably an important you know initiatory step in the direction of
(58:57) this New Path so you can fully receive what might have otherwise felt you know a bit scary to open to and for anyone who’s inspired to do the vital mind reset this is an incredible companion piece that your most recent book it’s fantastic I loved it and it’s really powerful together as you go through the cleanse to have this as a companion piece because just more tools for a woman to take ownership of her self-care her self-love her sensuality just like all the pieces they wrap around so beautifully together I
(59:41) feel really lucky that your book came out kind of at the same time that I started the Clans I could have both I love that I love that and that mean so much to me and I am excited I’m excited to be on the path with you I I would love to let the ladies know where they can follow along with like what is developing for you because I imagine most of the women listening are already very well aware of your work and probably already subscribed is there somewhere like what’s kind of bubbling forth and new and fresh is it just you
(1:00:16) know being on your newsletter is there somewhere they should be tuned into yeah well next month I’m starting my second year of teacher training with doing a a pleasure coaching certification program which I’m so excited about because this is my time to Mentor other women leaders like women that have a dream they want to put on its feet or who are doing leadership work in the world where they want a Sisterhood of support so that’s starting in September and uh getting on my newsletter I I love writing and I’m always writing love writing my
(1:00:57) newsletter so I’m always keeping in touch that way which is at mamas.com M M A gas.com or uh Mama on Instagram I’m always putting things out there they’re fun to do and really great to stay connected with people I love Instagram because people DM you and then you can say hi the Simplicity of human Connection in the digital era I love it well it’s so so was so amazing to see our paths entwine and it really it’s just delightful to me I adore you and we’ll make sure that everybody has what they need in the show notes and I will be
(1:01:38) staying tuned to what is next for you likewise I’m gonna be staying tuned with you too love thank you for this new chapter [Music] you [Music]
