Anatomy of Disempowerment

(00:02) we have been duped by feminism sexual Liberation and anti-depressants we have been told that we are powerful and free now as women but we feel tired wired and bitter we’re mostly eating right exercising and meditating wrangling to-do lists and arranging playdates and yet there’s a haunting holess beneath the huge complaint what if I told you that there is a huge Storehouse a reservoir of energy inside of you that has not been tapped that you could feel light and pulsing excited and alive in ways that a wellness lifestyle

(00:49) cannot deliver that you could trust yourself that the world could feel safe and that unexpected and expected Delights could start to illuminate your path no coach therapist doctor or Guru required just you learning to get real present and attentive with you I feel like I’m here to matchmake your inner parts for the greatest love affair ever written I want to help you learn first where you’re buying eggs from the hardware store which is the source of all pain I want to help you master entering through the upset which is the

(01:27) only spiritual practice You’ll Ever Need and to get real comfortable putting on your villain Crown which is in my opinion the key to True power and then you’ll attune to your inner yes so you can live the life defined by the specific pleasure of who you are I am so excited to announce my latest book called The reclaimed woman which is available for pre-order now so if you head to the link in show notes you can learn more about bonuses events and companion offerings and I cannot wait to see your gorgeous face on the

(02:07) [Music] path I’m Dr Kelly Brogan you may know me as a New York Times bestselling author of a book with an exploding pill on the cover Renegade psychiatrist P dancer or honorary member of the disinformation doesn’t what can I say I’m a born provocator I’ve spent most of my recent life exposing deceptions connecting dots and discovering the secret places my inner victim is still waiting to be liberated and now I feel called to help you reclaim all of your parts your health your sexuality your power and your expression so that you can finally

(02:46) truly own yourself I want to ignite in you that inner knowing and the pulsing Vitality that lives beneath your disempowerment disconnection and resentment so that you can audaciously courageously and playfully alchemize your struggle into the specific pleasure of who you are this is Reclamation radio a soulfire production welcome back to Reclamation radio I am Dr Brogan and I have the distinct pleasure of being in conversation today with the gorgeous and glorious Hima Gonzalez we met through our mutual friend Denny and I just

(03:29) basically got a free coaching session from her before my press record and also learned that she had intuited that we were going to connect months before we actually did and there is such a twinship in the topics the content the material that enlivens both of us we have come to such similar language such similar Concepts through very very different paths and we be began to build a relationship as allies I think probably early plandemic days and it became very clear that we both were drawn to the same point of Interest

(04:13) which is the anatomy of disempowerment and what are the psychospiritual elements that are contributing to the suffering and struggle that you know everyone was enduring whether you were on the side of Health Freedom or on the side of you know supporting the agenda there was a very similar tenor that I think we both perceived right and so the deeper inner work of attempting to opt out of that cycle and the perpetuation of it is something that you know we’ve both been dedicated to and you have a background in Beauty and fitness and

(04:52) media and my best summary and probably yours since you’ve written a book by the title of your expertise is in the Dynamics of power so I couldn’t be more excited to dive in with you him and to welcome you to the podcast well thank you so much for that intro Kelly and for sharing your experiences of me and I must say the respect is mutual the first time that I became aware of Kelly was in her Joe Rogan interview and I was listening to this woman and I’m like oh my God like who is this person and who is this badass and I had so much respect

(05:32) for Kelly because of her level of Integrity to be part of a system realize that it was out of integrity and want to call it out and it takes so much courage to put everything on the line to speak truth so I had a share of experiences never at that level like in my work in media Etc which is what sent me down this path of you know the exploration of power but I was like that is a badass and and so I feel honored you know because when I saw that interview I said that woman and I one day were going to meet and I was telling Kelly that a

(06:16) couple of months later our mutual friend just mentioned something about Kelly and I was like how do you know her and she said oh well we’re best friends I was like no and here we are here we are with our shared South node in Aries Warrior I love it so there are so many places where we could dive in whether we were talking about the warrior archetype about the Optics I love this word in a private conversation group that we are in when we were discussing and analyzing an interview you were talking about the Optics and even just sort of like what

(06:54) is power to you but I think I want to start with the point in your career because you have done so many different things and you have so many different masteries the point in your career where you recognize that the only thing that matters is relationships it seems like right relationships to government relationships to others relationships to food but those relationships and the patterning begins with the internal Dynamics right so when is it in your let’s say the health and fitness phase of your career that you recognize that

(07:29) that’s where results come from that’s what matters and this is what you were going to devote you know the rest of your your vocation to well that’s that’s such a powerful question and I think that there was an experience that happened in 2006 there were many things that happened that took me to that place but I would I would say this was just so mind-blowing and it was I was filming a documentary in the mountains in Colombia in the jungle and I was interviewing the kogi Indians and so they’re native to the area where

(08:05) I’m from I’m from Colombia South America and long story short my partner in the documentary is getting ready to film and I’m talking to the Indian and so I don’t know why I asked this question but it completely transformed my life and I was never the same after that I asked him what is your idea of a beautiful woman and then this man starts to give me an answer that I was not expecting he was saying to me well that she’s a great mother that she’s a wonderful partner that she’s this and he’s just talking about these different qualities and I’m

(08:37) thinking okay well is there a language barrier because I’m talking in Spanish his you know his main language is kogi and he you know I I was thinking about that in my civilized arrogance I kept thinking that he didn’t understand me and I kept trying to rephrase that question over and over again and he kept giving me the same answers and then I realized well heimy the one who doesn’t understand is you because this person has not been exposed to all the media and the propaganda and the garbage that you get to see every

(09:08) day through television through Billboards through magazines through and I worked in the field at the moment so it was like I can’t even describe such a it was like a mystical experience it was like a surreal experience where I felt like I had been living in water my entire life without knowing I was living in water thinking it was perfectly normal and then someone pulls me out and puts me on dry land and goes look there’s another perception and then I just felt like oh my God this is so deceitful like you know this environment

(09:41) that we live in it’s so fake and then when I came back from the mountain I don’t think I was ever the same again and I just started to see you know like the fitness industry the media you know and just my clients and everything in such a different light so if I was to say you know what was the most powerful experience for me that just like rewired my circuitry it was that which is fascinating because you know those of you who are listening you know versus watching a clip you are a very objectively if there is such a thing

(10:15) conventionally gorgeous woman right and you have been recognized for being such and so to have this experience of dissonance right that’s cognitive dissonance what you went through those ruptures are what expands us or at least precedes the expansion around what beauty is and how it might be cultivated in ways that are different from all of the sort of carrot on a stick marketing and commodified offerings around like enhancing Beauty must have been profound so I wonder you know how how do you think about beauty these days like how

(10:52) do you relate to it right because there’s the temptation to say oh well you know your your external appearance doesn’t matter and it only matters what’s inside and that’s not been at least where I’ve arrived is that it all matters and in fact at least in my own Journey my external if you want to say like physical appearance has morphed and changed over the years as I have done this inner work and I would say specifically even in the past couple of years as I’ve worked through significant sexual shame and shame around mothering

(11:22) shame around all these different dimensions that I had been hiding even from my own self so all of these little like ripply spaces inside of me of incoherence and so I I do think of beauty as being a an emergent phenomenon of trauma healing and I wonder I wonder what you think or if that’s something that resonates I’m nodding as I’m hearing you speak because if I was to Define Beauty today 23 years after being doing this work I would say that it’s actually Harmony within yourself it’s a congruency and it’s a frequency that you resonate

(12:02) at and what I’ve realized is that in my own Journey like I feel like I’ve just gotten better and better with the years why because I’ve done my inner work because like with Kelly was saying I’ve been confronting My Demons I’ve been purging I’ve been you know just purifying purifying and in that process it’s like you’re polishing the diamond and it’s not an external process it’s an internal process that gets expressed and represented in your physical appearance and it’s really interesting because this whole thing of oh yeah well whatever you

(12:43) look like doesn’t matter that’s just the biggest like and one thing that I say to the people when I work with them is I I quote dooi and I say above all do not lie to yourself do not lie to yourself because what I’ve realized through the years is that both women and men one of the ways in which they’ve learned to manage their power is through Beauty and they will be willing to do anything even if it means harming themselves to get there and they will get lost in vanity so what would be my definition of Vanity Vanity is when

(13:19) you try to pursue Beauty for the outside world to approve of you and you’re willing to do anything to get that outcome even if it means abandon in yourself and hurting yourself now self-care is a completely different thing it’s coming from I’m going to respect myself I’m going to respect my body I’m going to respect and heal the relationship that I have with myself that I project onto food onto body image onto exercise onto relationships onto everything and what I’ve learned which ties us to the first question is that we

(13:56) were taught to externalize our power and this is why people pursue Beauty at the expense of Health Etc if they think that that’s going to give them power Oh They’ll do whatever just like money just like credentials just like metal people will give themselves away and abandon themselves and betray themselves and prostitute themselves to get that it’s vanity but there is a very different energy that comes from when you instead of going for external enhancements and things that other people give to you you go inside yourself and you are willing

(14:33) to really build your inner power structures confront your temptation to edit yourself confront your temptation to give your power away confront your temptation to become who you think the outside world needs you to be in order to be accepted and when you do this inner work you build something that nobody can give to you other than yourself and nobody can take away from from you and that is self-respect and it creates a level of Harmony within yourself that every cell of your being and of your body starts vibrating at a

(15:08) different frequency and it’s harmonious and it starts healing your body and it starts like even your hair changes like everything changes and it’s like it’s that’s a transformation you see when somebody puts you under a a surgical procedure Etc yeah you can see the transformation right away but it’s it’s not a transformation the same person is still in there the same person that doesn’t like themselves the same person that critiques themselves Etc but when you go in and you really do the work and you are the surgeon and you are going in and

(15:45) you are you know opening up and and seeing where tissues rotting you know within yourself and your you know pain and your and you have the courage to face it to heal it to clean to soothe to mother and to pay attention to yourself and stop abandoning yourself then that’s what I think Beauty really is you are beautiful literally inside out because you’re nourished because you respect yourself because you’re authentic that’s such an important word and I want to get deeper into where this all begins this externalization of power

(16:23) and I heard you in a podcast with your husband Mark say something I love which is that the masculine like let’s say the mature healthy masculine self validates whereas the mature healthy feminine self- inspires and I think it’s such a helpful way to look at this internal sourcing right because what you’re suggesting is that when we are validating from the outside sounds so cliche right like oh you need external validation and of course part of this relational universe that we incarnated into is to experience ourselves through

(17:00) others but I think you and I both know that when we have these beliefs let’s say Renegade ideas or Fringe Concepts or whatever and we get triggered by somebody else who doesn’t agree it’s because we don’t entirely ourselves believe it right when you get to this place where what you believe what you choose to do how you relate to your own behavior is so self-aligned it really doesn’t matter if somebody else doesn’t perceive it the way you do and certainly I’m on the path right like I have not arrived because I still long to be

(17:36) surrounded Always by people who can validate my reality and agree and you know that’s why I love like little groups we’re in and I understand that that is the North Star right it’s getting to a place where I’m so self-aligned that everyone else can just be who the hell they are and I can I call it wearing the villain crown and I can be perceived as wrong or even bad in their eyes and it’s okay right so I’d love to hear obviously most people listening are familiar with a lot of the concepts that you and I mess around with

(18:07) and it never hurts to get down to Basics so I’d love to hear from your perspective like where does where do things go wrong right because obviously as children we are in a dependent position and somehow some way we end up as adults who continue to externalize power and we play out all of these you know sort of patterns of struggle and suffering from that core woundology so what is your perspective on not only where it begins but also how you see it you know as somebody who you know you and I are totally on the same page when

(18:48) it comes to like what’s going on in the world today so how you see it playing out on the world stage and and the lens through which you have observed the past you know three years of shenanigans yeah well that’s such a deep question and I think that I’m going to start answering it there based on the work that I’ve done when I saw what was happening the reason why I decided to write the power book was because I realized that when I started working with clients let’s say that they because I take them on a self-discovery journey

(19:21) to connect with what food works for us and even at that level KY and I have you know like I don’t know about you know because our thoughts and things change so much but like based on my understanding with h Dr Kelly as a background and you know and all that but I take them on a self-discovery journey yeah just to elaborate absolutely we kind like the metabolic typing you’re referring to my mentor’s mentor and we’ve absolutely come through the same processes my mentors Mentor even though our mentors are different was

(19:52) also so funny yes so the metabolic typing and the you know different dietary alignments based on on your autonomic system and yeah we’ve come come to a very similar place okay so go ahead yeah so what I realized is that even though people get to a point where they realize and they understand what works for them what doesn’t and when they eat certain things it really triggers them Etc and they keep doing it over over again especially when they’re in the presence of another person that is challenging them for the way that

(20:22) they’re eating and playing food police with them you know what I mean so like when you let’s say decide that you’re eating fat that you’re eating red meat whatever and then you know the people around you start oh my God you’re going to die of heart disease and your cholesterol and this and this and that and it I started to notice something very interesting and and I’ve worked with all kinds of people from you know like billionaires like to security guards like literally a broad spec and from people from all over the world and

(20:52) I understood that there was this archetypal pattern and it was that they could not hold their power in the presence of another person’s Judgment of what they were doing so when I saw as I call it the show unfold I just kind of like grabbed the popcorn in a sense because I was like if they can’t even do it with food how are they going to be able to first question and second stay centered in their power when the entire reality is pushing them towards doing something and that’s when I when I say grab the popcorn you know I

(21:34) don’t mean that in a condescending or you know but it was like I kind of saw what was coming just because I had that experience with the clients just with food and this is why I say like food exercise relationships are just tools for us to get to know ourselves and how we manage our power and so I don’t know if that answers that part of the question so I was very concerned and I what concerned me the most was that this also revealed the level of instinct injury that people are in and I would love to introduce that concept because I

(22:09) think it’s so important and this is you know as I was working with people from all walks of life with very different challenges that came to see me my job was always to understand okay so what is their body telling me so that I can get to you know like the root and address things at that level and you know I was dealing with somebody with a weight gain or if I was dealing with somebody with I don’t know stress or whatever like yes technically they had different themes going on but there was an underlying common denominator but I hadn’t found

(22:42) the language to express it until one day I read a book women who run the with the wolves and there were two words in that book that were completely unrelated to what I’m going to say but but those two words just did it for me and it was Instinct injury and what I realized is that myself my client family everybody we’re in a state of instinct injury so what does that mean it’s not it doesn’t only refer to our Instinct it refers to all of our inner guides Instinct innate intelligence intuition Integrity notice all of those

(23:13) words start with the letters I end right they come from within they’re our inner Compass that’s what I would say the anatomy of our inner Compass or a part of the anatomy of our inner compass and what I realized is that everybody’s well I can’t speak for every person on the planet but like my experience of the people that I’ve interacted with have been walking around with a broken inner Compass because they never learned to trust themselves but they only learned to trust the consensus of the world outside of them so you know that’s the

(23:49) other thing that was so evident to me during 2020 and Beyond it was the level of instinct injury that people were in that in order to fit in and they were willing to compromise themselves and their health and turn against their own survival Instinct just to belong well that’s how powerful the need to belong is you know like and we all have it to varying degrees but it just really fascinated me so those two things and so the work that I do these days is giving people the tools taking them through a self-discovery journey so that they can

(24:22) heal that broken inner Compass so that they can heal that instinct injury and learn how to trust their Instinct their innate intelligence their intuition their integrity so that they can create Harmony within themselves and build some serious inner power structures that also reflect not just on the physical health but the mental emotional spiritual intuitive sexual authentic self-expression Health all of these are dimensions that we have so I think that the that answers that part of the question and I don’t know if you’d like

(24:55) to say something Kelly or if you’d like me to go into where this comes from in my observation and my experience go ahead yeah okay so as I understand it that when we come here we come like with a trust fund and that is our potential that the Divine has given us it’s a trust fund it’s all this power and because we’re infants and we cannot even feed ourselves we are 100% dependent upon our caregivers and so their job is to manage AG that power for us in our formative years and teach us how to manage our own power give us the tools so that we do

(25:40) that so as Kelly was mentioning earlier as I understand it the feminine energy inspires us to self-discover the masculine energy asserts and validates us as we self-discover so what would that look like Mom going like oh wow come on let’s clap look your hands make noise when you bring them together let’s clap and then the child claps and the dad you know would validate the child in that process but the problem is that if we continue doing that for the infant the infant will not learn how to self Inspire and how to self validate and it will become

(26:18) dependent upon the inspiration and the validation of the outside world and I think that taking a trip down social media really makes this evident and so when we were little children we were not taken through rights of Passage well our parents were really teaching us about our power and why not because they were bad people not because of anything like that but because they were just doing the best that they had with the resources that they had available to them and they were just passing down their generational trauma without even

(26:49) understanding that that’s what they were doing which by the way it was necessary I would offer because as I look back at my life and the experiences and the trauma my makeig my biggest teachers my mom my dad the people around me they were playing those roles for me so that I could have those experiences in this lifetime and call my power back but anyway but that was not what happened during my my childhood you know so what happens is that because most parents are adult children that were not given the opportunity to go their through their

(27:21) own self-discovery Journey learn how to manage their own power and their parents are still managing parts of their power for them well they do the same thing with us they create codependent relationships with us and instead of learning how to get their needs met they learn to get their needs met through us and so again this is archetypal I would offer that most or all people go through this process and again there’s purpose in this so what happens is that let’s say that you want to self explore and you say oh I want to

(27:56) do gymnastics but your mom goes no you’re going to do ballet something as simple as that and then she gives you no attention over the gymnastics or shames you or criticizes you or punishes you or you know whatever control drama gets expressed to get you to do what she wants so she’s inspiring you not to self-discover but to become who she needs you to be and so as children because our parents are God and you know like we have no other option oftentimes we learn that okay asserting myself or self Discovery means punishment

(28:30) rejection being ignored but if I abandon myself and my needs and I become who I think they need me to be yay I’m G to get a golden star and a happy face and love and approval and validation and all of that and some people get stuck in blind obedience compliance and then for other people they go through a process where they go wait a minute I just gave myself away and then this can happen at any age of development but it typically happens during the teenage years and then the defiant teenager archetype kicks in and

(29:07) it goes okay whereas before I was trying to figure out who people needed me to be so that I could be that now I’m going to figure out who people need me to be so I can do the total opposite and I’ll punish them even if it means hurting myself so off I go smoking drugs alcohol you know and then I think that I’m punishing that authority figure but here’s the interesting thing that I learned obviously many years later and it’s that they’re two sides of the same coin because whether we are complying or defying an authority we are recognizing

(29:43) that a third party is an authority and we give our power away to them through compliance and through Defiance and the interesting thing about Defiance is that when the authority figure feels like it’s being defied it feels even more more justified in imposing the punishment or the Restriction so you know we tend to think that through our defiency we’re asserting ourselves but what we’re doing is we’re just deepening the control drama and the power struggle with the authority figure you know so if I was to look at it in this situation you know

(30:18) like no the solution is not compliance the solution is not Defiance the solution is I’ve gone through a self-discovery journey from the energy of respect and I’ve given myself rights of Passage into adulthood by activating my feminine energy to self-explore to be inspired to self-explore and my masculine energy to protect those values that have come up as I’ve self explored and set healthy limits and boundaries around those values I know who I am I know what I’m not going to do and I can assert myself as the authority I

(31:02) recognize that I don’t have authority over another human being just like no human being has authority over me but I am my authority and that I think if we were all to go through that archetypal right of passage then I think that we would be in a very different world then we’re talking about building a new Earth but what I would offer is that if we build this new Earth with the same dynamics of codependency on I need the outside world to inspire me and validate me and this and this and that we’re just going to recreate the same codependence

(31:41) power struggle and control drama that we have with the institutions why because the only reason why the institutions work is because we were taught that we shouldn’t trust ourselves we shouldn’t trust our perception so we should trust the experi experiences and the consensus of the world outside of us and the institution knows best because they have their consensus and they’ll tell us what life is and to the degree that we dismiss ourselves our inner guidance we Instinct injure ourselves more and more and more because we disconnect from that

(32:15) inner Compass Instinct and intelligence intuition and integrity and we centralize power in surrogate mom and dad and it works because most people don’t want to become responsible for themselves so that’s my very long answer it’s I mean it’s it’s just literally exactly where I have come to and I have similarly I mean the humility required at least in you know my case as like a very righteous activist for a decade to come to the conclusion that my defiant energy was actually the same resonant frequency if you will as the

(32:54) compliant energy I was judging was really it’s one of of the great gifts of this recent you know scop because I don’t think I would have been in a position to see it otherwise now I call it the erotic caress of the enemy because myself and so many of my colleagues were so obsessed right totally obsessed with what the enemy was doing and interpreting it and then then deriving a sense of importance and worth from our role as Sentinels and Rescuers and you know I just got to the this place where I was like I’m not sure I’m

(33:27) doing anything other than perpetuating exactly that which I purport to resolve and that’s the energy of the you know pharmaceutical right it’s like perpetuating that which it purports to resolve and so how am I actually contributing here and maybe most activists are in that energy of defiance which is not sovereignty right it is still referential it is still oppositional and it’s not creating you know it’s not a healthy feminine flow where you’re creating and focusing on that which inspires and I I think you’re

(34:00) Tyrant yes the energy of the Tyrant exactly you’re one of the few people who I can have this conversation with who has come because you know a lot of the activists that I speak to they they’re I mean in our Inner Circle they’re very willing to look at it but for the most part it feels accusatory and that’s not obviously my intention I am that person too it’s just imperative that we recognize that the sounding of the alarm and the insistence that things be different than they are in ways that we cannot control Troll and the obsession

(34:30) with the the fear mongering honestly around all of the horrible things they are doing versus like you said with the Popcorn versus like just kind of like sitting back and observing and that’s where I want to sort of move is because I think you have a lot of Mastery in that realm so my friend Katie of lotus way was a sponsor at my audacious embodiment Retreat and we had the attendees pull cards to see what FL remedy was for them the most commonly chosen flower was Japanese chamelia which is in this blend that Lotus s makes called divine

(35:10) within so this is for when there’s a part of you that due to disappointment my favorite emotion hardens and becomes apathetic and it’s kind of a whatever  it I don’t care energy that becomes a callous over your body this flower dissolves apathy and softens your heart enough to re-engage and it’s helpful for relationships for situations or jobs that disappoint you so this is a big one for me and I take it every day so if this feels compelling head to Lotus way.

(35:52) com and use the code kelly5 for 15% off the link is in the show notes for you but I wanted to bring up one other thing I was thinking about when you were talking is like the humble origins of this and it is it’s meant to be this way it is an archetypal Journey it’s the youngian individuation process you know that we are here to experience and you know there’s this book I don’t know if you’ve read it called unconditional Parenting by Alfie con and he talks about how of course punishment is problematic right but he talks about how praise is actually problematic and he

(36:22) gives an example of like you know if a little kid gives a blueberry from his own inter feminine right his own inspiration he gives a blueberry to his little friend sitting there and she enjoys it right but the mommy is watching and the mommy says Oh Billy that’s so nice that you shared your blueberry with you know Sally now his inspiration is co-opted right and externalized and so is his validation so now the next time he shares a blueberry he does so in order to secure love acceptance and a sense of worth through

(36:57) the eyes of his mom and it’s so innocent right all of these ways that we our kids up yeah it’s it’s really it’s very again humbling you know to see like oh wow this is unavoidable in so many ways despite our best efforts even in this generation of parents and there is an initiation required to progress evolve and develop beyond that externalization and we are especially in the hegemony of American culture living without initiation right even childbirth has been medicalized sufficiently such that 99% of women are not experiencing that

(37:36) reconnection to their Divine selves through that right of passage and we have a situation so that plus so much of what we are marinating in culturally which I know you come from the media world we have a situation right so I’d love to know you know your perspective on what you call spellcasting when it comes to the way that media reinforces this disempowerment and this externalization and perhaps the role that you see media playing in so many of the scops and agendas that we deconstruct and analyze you know in our

(38:15) you know sort of inner circle conversations and how you see right because I’ve heard you talk about spellcasting when it comes to body image and relationship to you know Fitness and food and health Health but then of course also when it comes to you know dimensions of germ Theory and cosmology and just the ways that we are told that what we are experiencing in our human bodies is not actually what we should believe to be true and here’s the truth right so the gas light right the ultimate gas light so let’s talk a bit

(38:47) about you know how you can look through a victimless lens at what is happening with regard to Media based and really cultural spellcast casting oh my God Kell like I love this conversation with you because you’re just like nugget nugget nugget and I just want to go like okay I want to talk about that I want to talk about that that’s I don’t even know where to start because there’s just so much so much stuff to cover but I will say something to start with what you were mentioning about the victim archetype and I love speaking in the language of

(39:19) archetypes because as as I understand them they’re part of our Collective Consciousness and we tend to download or activate those archetypes depending on situations that we’re in and we learned how to do this from survival so you know like if we feel disempowered oftentimes we’ll download the victim archetype because the irony of it is that there’s nothing more powerful than the controlled drama of a victim not powerful or more controlling but anyway so one of the things that I do to manage my relationship with my Victim archetype

(39:53) because I certainly have a victim archetype just like I have a tyrant archetype just like I have all of these very interesting characters I have a very interesting play going on inside of me with all these different characters and but I just grab popcorn and just play with them watch them play with them so what I do is when I’m in a situation where I’m feeling victimized I give my Victim the pen and I allow my Victim to speak up say how horrible it felt what it meant you know like why did this happen to me and I will

(40:29) exhaust every single comment or thing that I need to do in my presence so it’s my little girl little HEI with my mystical parents adult HEI adult HEI mom dad and I get to witness her and then so that I don’t depend on other people doing that for me and by the way there are moments when I don’t have answers Etc and I will seek help and so I’m not trying to say that you know I’m like you know like I I don’t get help that’s not true but in in my daily practice this is what I do so I give the victim a voice and then I download another archetype

(41:11) and that’s the superhero archetype and I asked a different question why did this happen for me or The Alchemist archetype and what am I meant to learn so I dance between the victim because it if I create a safe space for my little girl to reveal the secrets and why she felt victimized and her hidden shame and fear and all that then I’m getting somewhere because I have material to work with and then I can use my conscious awareness and you know and reparent myself through the energy of the superhero and ask well

(41:43) okay well why did this happen for me well it was necessary I needed this lesson I needed to understand the consequences of giving my power away here I needed to understand and then I completely reframe and turn that into power so that’s how I’ve learned that and I want to go back to something else that you said at the beginning of this question which is so powerful and it was like how we validate children and by the way a lot of this work and I totally want to give credit to one of my mentors his name is John McMullen and I just

(42:13) feel so grateful that the Universe put that if I was to describe John my experience of John it’s he is like a wise wizard he’s in his 80s with the soul of a 5-year-old like he is so playful but at the same time when he opens his mouth it’s just wisdom that just invades and penetrates the room it’s it’s bizarre but anyway so a lot of this I want to I want to credit John for for that but one of the things that I that I learned through John is that when we praise or we criticize they’re actually a controll drama and I know

(42:52) that people are like what and also what it does is it it’s a projection onto other people so if I for example have a child and I say to that child good job what I’m doing is I am teaching that child to sever himself from his own accomplishments and focus his energy and his attention on what they mean to me and to the outside world and so same thing goes if the child does something wrong shame on you and this and that again a projection and so the question people how is like okay well if I don’t do this and I don’t do that what do I do

(43:31) and what I would offer is can we ask what did your accomplishment mean to you and give the child the invitation inside self so that it can start reparenting or parenting self and self validating you know and if they did something quote unquote wrong and hit another girl like why did you feel it was necessary to hit that girl and then let the little girl go inside herself connect with her emotions and start developing emotional intelligence so that she can learn to understand her emotions and start finding strategies to self soothe

(44:13) instead of using dissociation or acting out weird behaviors to self sooth so I think that that’s a really really important thing that you bring up and by the way like you know does that mean that I never do any of these things no like I catch myself constantly because this has been an autopilot that has gone on for countless years and it’s just bringing the awareness and you know bringing it back to my journal how can I do it different what is this teaching me and allowing my little girl to become my greatest teacher and guide because you

(44:46) know what and this is something that I’ve realized through the years during my upbringing I really learned to dismiss my little girl and abandon her and I became very needy for external approval and for external attention why because I was not giving my little girl the attention that she needed so I needed to go inside myself and that’s actually my name is Hima but I call myself HEI which is what I was called when I was a little girl in acknowledgement to the work that that little girl and it makes me emotional

(45:16) every time I talk about that because it’s it’s the work that has it’s her experiences her pain her suffering that has brought me to this understanding so I have such a deep level of respect and reverence for that little girl she’s so cheeky by the way anyway so and playful and you know so cool but anyway I learned to dismiss my intuition my inner guidance and what I realized was that little HEI was always right she was always guiding me to truth and the outside world was severing me from myself from my soul and I started

(45:54) to realize and I started to go how much of my life have I built to gain the approval of the outside world and in doing so how much have I betrayed and dismissed my little girl and how much pain and stress am I experiencing because I’m living a life that is not authentic to that little girl and so what I did was I asked my little girl what’s the life of your dreams what do you want to do and then I’ve allowed that little girl to guide me and it was you know it was not what what I thought it was which was being in media and you

(46:30) know doing all these things I saw the movie Blue Lagoon when I was a little girl and I was like I just want to be on the beach Barefoot half naked tangled hair in an authentic relationship with myself with my partner and then I’ve added something and I want to share that wisdom with the world so that was my little girl that took me there and I I want to say this work is the little girl it’s not about externalizing the work world and becoming Rescuers of the people outside of us it’s about rescuing the only person we can rescue is

(47:07) ourselves one of the things that I’ve learned is that someone said The Rescuer is always a victim because you can’t rescue anyone from themselves and then what we do is we learn to suffer over other people’s suffering and that’s if we really look deep into it that’s why we activate The Rescuer it’s not to help other people is to alleviate our suffering over their suffering 100% yeah that’s what I realized even when I why I became a doctor when I worked that Suicide Hotline at MIT and I got in touch with that feeling of like oh I

(47:40) don’t have to experience the discomfort of somebody else’s suffering if I can help them right if I can send them to the Mental Health Center or whatever and the feeling was just immediately dissipated within my own body it’s so so so true and of course we know right like the rescue would be put out of a job if the person that they were if the victim they were helping was actually saved right so it’s a it requires a constant it’s parasitic right requires a constant feeding sense of selfy yeah you build and and then that’s the thing about it

(48:15) it’s it is codependent because you do need disempowered helpless little children to see you as Mommy and Daddy to rescue them and when you rescue people you teach them that they don’t need to rescue themselves so then you you know perpetuate and become the enabler of people’s pain and then we go back to you know the rescu archetype the enabler archetype and it just goes on and on and on with these archetypes that we download we can talk about this without me having to pull research or whatever why because they all live

(48:46) inside of us we all recognize them we you know if we trust our perception and if we’re honest with ourselves we can see all these characters having a say within us so yeah so there was one more question that you asked I know that when you watched so we analyzed in yeah one of our small groups right we analyzed an interview between David Martin and Alex Z and I know that you like like me and like our intimate colleagues when we are apprised of some sort of a false flag or something that’s common to the mainstream media the first thing we’re

(49:24) interested in is what you call the optic right so it’s like the messaging right what is the intended intrapsychic effect of this theatrical performance right what was the deeper psychospiritual agenda here right because it’s never what we think it is like to make people scared of a thing right of course yes it is that too but there’s a deeper reification of this victim Consciousness and the sense that right what are some of the things somebody knows better than you there are experts out there that there’s something

(49:59) you can’t see and therefore you know should be deferring to experts who do know about the invisible thing right or there are sort of things it’s the same that you know like okay I have a beautiful relationship with with God so I’m not talking about God not existing but it’s like this what they present to us like this invisible creature and being that does this and you have to rely on what the expert the priest tells you about them because they’re the only person who can know them same thing with this that we’re talking about it’s a

(50:28) faith of and give your power we to my to the consensus that we’ve created a group of people have created and you’re under our Command so what would you say are some of the other elements when when it comes to these agendas and false flags and these theatrics what are some of the elements that you feel go into the design of these events you know whether it’s you know some sort of directed energy CL climate stuff or moon landing or 911 right like what are the elements that are required for these flags in order to achieve a further sort of like

(51:11) indentured posture on the part of the people who are taking this as news right like what are the ingredients as far as you see it I think that one of the main ingredients is that they’ve done a great job for years to teach people to hate themselves and to wage war against themselves and this is I think one of the reasons why I’ve really focused on this field of body image and all that because if they can get you to feel like your body is flawed that your body is horrible that your value is compromised because you don’t look a certain way and

(51:46) they are always dangling a little carrot outside of you whether it’s this therapeutic is going to do it or this supplement or this therapy or this this like and you never have the opportunity to go and inside your body and go like well guess what this is the home that was assigned to me when I came here and I need to do everything I can to make this home as cozy and as amazing and trust this space and know that I you know I’m doing everything I can to understand it to manage it the best way that I can so that I can feel safe and

(52:20) embodied so the disembodiment of the human being through telling them that their home is flawed or ugly or this I can’t think of any higher form of terrorism yeah got broken right you live in a broken yeah yeah you’re broken you’re brok but you need fixing and you can fix yourself oh no but I will come and I will save you and I will rescue you and I will make all the boo boos go away all you need to do is just basically betray every part of you and become who I need you to be and I can’t think of anything more horrific

(53:01) than that and then with that foundation and in teaching people to not trust themselves but to trust the world outside of them and dismiss them the Instinct injured the Instinct injured will hurt themselves will do what because they don’t know self and like if you haven’t self- explored and you haven’t gone through that process of who am I and then activating the masculine energy to set limits and boundaries around that you’re boundless so you’ll be molded into anything that other people want you to be so keeping people

(53:33) afraid disconnected from themselves feeling that their body is flawed that the experts outside of them have the answers this is why I invite people to self-discover so they become experts in themselves when you’re an expert in yourself nobody can come and you and it’s not from a place of arrogance because being an expert in yourself doesn’t mean that you stop your curiosity and that you don’t continue learning and learning about yourself and seeing looking for you know like encountering blind spots and you know

(54:02) because we all have them it doesn’t mean that it means that you learn to trust yourself about yourself and about other people and this is something that I was saying the other day is it about us trusting other people I mean or is it about us learning to trust ourselves about other people so look at the language that they were using it’s trust the experts don’t trust yourself don’t do the research and and something we’ve been taught since we were little kids curiosity killed the cat but Kelly you have cats you know it’s a and I always say no

(54:35) curiosity gave the cats how many lives does a cat allegedly have nine yeah yeah because it’s it’s that Curiosity that keeps us in this state of you know instead of giving our power away to someone else it keeps us Instinct healthy it keeps us on our toes and it keeps our inner com pass aware and active so that we can protect ourselves instead of dismantled and pacified so that we can become easy prey and just basically set the stage so this is an inside job in that they have put all the pieces of the puzzle the self-hate the

(55:15) self-doubt the inability to trust self Etc so that this could work and you know what I think I think that we are just so crazy incredible do you know what’s revealing that the effort that these people are going to to poison us to disconnect us from ourselves from nature from Source like that to me just reveals how incredibly powerful we are that they’ve had to go for years and years and years building this nonsense to make us feel that we’re weak and that we’re disempowered like that’s just revealing powerful we actually are if you ask me

(56:00) absolutely and so resilient right like I think that’s some place that a lot of activists can get lost is in the disempowered awareness right so you learn about the Chemtrails and you learn about the poison in the food and you learn about the gluten and you know the sugar and and then you get to this place and the legion you know trauma everywhere right and then you get to this place where you feel so fragile and really quite neurotic right about living this highly architected life so that you can experience safety right and that is

(56:37) not self- sourcing anymore than you know Outsourcing agency to the food pyramid it’s it’s the same energy so how do we get to this place where we hold awareness with this deep sense of connection to our own resiliency and Trust in our own decision making and our journey and that of course is this adult ification process and I’d love to end something of course yeah I think that that is you know I think that people are always hearing about how bad things are and I think that it’s good that we’re having a conversation about

(57:09) understanding a lot of where it comes from why we participate because without that understanding we can’t operate from a different energy and elevator frequency but there’s something so important about that Kelly and it’s that I observe like for example the CH triling they do it here and you know all the nonsense and I would get so angry like my Aries Warriors I know it’s so angry and so ah this and this and that and then there’s purpose in that experience because what for me I’m speaking for me and I’ll just leave it

(57:46) out there for people to see if they can resonate with what I’m going to say but that brought me to a prayer actually and uh it’s I’ve had quite a bit of addiction in my family and uh several members of my family have done the 12-step program and they have a prayer that says God and I’d like to refer to God as Divine sacred magical source so God please grant me the serenity to accept the things you don’t want me to change courage to change the things you do want me to change and the wisdom to discern and recognize the difference I

(58:21) will not poison myself and engage in self harm if that is happening out there there’s a purpose but it’s not my participation it’s not coming from me I am not attacking myself and at the same time this is about me having had to refrain so much and call my power back from the things that are not within my hands and so what this has brought me to is that I’m on this journey with the Divine I was whatever the Divine means to you I’m not here to tell you to believe in it and I’m just speaking to you as my self-discovery journey the

(58:58) most honest and real thing that I have in my life is the relationship with little HEI the relationship with nature the relationship with the Divine and that after doing a Life review like I spend you know at least an hour journaling every day getting to understand the Deep work or the world that lives inside of me what I’ve seen is that everything everything in my life that I have experienced was necessary it had purpose whether I could understand it at that moment or not eventually I can see it and how it was

(59:37) building a bigger picture and how it was I don’t really like to use this word but kind of grooming me or preparing me or to become the woman that I have become today so it humbles me in the acknowledgement that there are things that I am meant to do and I will do them and there are things that are in the realm of the Divine and I meant to sit in faith and a deep sense of trust that I’ve got my back that I will do what I need to do when the time comes for me and that the Divine is taking me on a journey what that looks like I have no

(1:00:12) idea but I’m open Curious and humbled by the process Heen women and just how necessary it is to rise out of the narcotic experience of a random Universe right to get to that place and that is maybe the most defiant element of what we’re talking about and knowing that your narration is always your choice your choice always lies in the story that you’re telling about what is happening and therefore you always are in power and in control I love it so I want to close with a question about one of the Insidious places that this

(1:00:57) externalization and disempowerment is perpetuated which I know you and your husband speak about which is in the coaching world right so in those ambassadors of health and wellness and self- betterment and self-improvement I’d love just sort of a nutshell about what you’ve observed as far as how these individuals right which can include both of us right how these individuals can ultimately again perpetuate that which they purport to resolve and stand in the way of the ignition the Catalyst of the intrinsic motivation right so the exercise because

(1:01:41) it’s a deep desire right the eating healthy because it’s a deep desire it’s an expression of self and an extension of an alliance with self that’s come online so what have you observed in terms of the way that coaches and actually my teacher Omar p talks about this how female coaches like really serve the pain body and augment it and enhance it and foment it of other women right what have you observed as far as the role that coaches play in disempowerment perhaps unintentionally right yeah yeah and you know why can I

(1:02:14) speak of this because I’ve been there myself and I’m still connecting with my blind spots and calling myself back and when I speak about these things it’s never from the energy of trying to value another person and what they’re doing because it’s their Journey because the people that they’re interacting with need those experiences as well Etc but this is an invitation for us to basically ask ourselves well how well is this working and how can we do things differently and better and so one of the things that I

(1:02:48) see I’m guessing you’ve seen it in the medical field as well is that often times the reason why we choose a career is because we want to get validated through that career and so oftentimes the people that come into the world of fitness and Beauty come in with a very painful relationship with themselves about food and about body image for example like I’ll just use that as an example and they found some kind of way system that help them morph their body into something that gave them the illusion that they could control

(1:03:22) their body okay so then now you know obviously when find something that you feel has worked for you then you want to share it with the world it’s natural I’ve done that like you know but I think that one of the first things is that the body is not something to be controlled as I understand it’s something to be experienced to learn from and to manage the best way that you can through your daily choices through the way that you manage your psychospiritual health etc etc like that’s that’s the participation but there’s this whole idea that as

(1:03:53) trainers and fitness people we can control control other people’s bodies and shape them into something so people come in with this expectation and often times they will come to the coach and the trainer and they’ll say like I want her ABS I want her legs I want her butt like if you had a magic wand and you were going to transform their body into like I I don’t even know what people think like if they were surgeons and then the coaches because they want to have the reputation and the validation of the outside world of look I give people the

(1:04:27) results that they want I teach them how to control their bodies they’re oftentimes seduced to teach people practices that work against their body to achieve those results okay and what that means as I’ve understood it is a lot of what is being taught in the Fitness World to get people to lose weight and stay healthy is using strategies that keep people in a sympathetic state in a fight or flight so that the body is basically cannibalizing it self you know and that’s how you achieve these looks and these aesthetic results so starving

(1:05:01) yourself famine OV exercising running away from a lion taking stimulants perpetuating the sympathetic State and often times they don’t understand the consequences that this has not just for the psyche because when you see yourself so ripped and so lean anything from there feels obese and then this sets a stage for a painful relationship with food body image Etc and then also well I needed to hurt myself and compromise myself to get to this place and now I’m just going to go deeper and deeper and deeper into that and it leads to a very

(1:05:41) very painful place and so it’s a combination of the expectations that the outside world has on what a coach is and what it should do for them and that they are the ones that are going to do the work and I don’t know if this has happened to you Kelly but but when somebody comes to see us they think that just by hiring us like their life has been transformed and like it’s us doing the work absolutely not it’s a team effort and then also the first thing they do is they project Mom and Dad onto us and then they seduce us and a lot of

(1:06:13) coaches don’t have the awareness that we were talking about about the painful parenting model that we explored earlier and they get seduced into playing the role of Mom and Dad and then telling people what to do and then giving them praise punishing them or criticizing them if they don’t do what they want them to do and on it goes control drama power struggle the client initially becomes compliant and it does everything that it needs to do because it needs to be seen as good Etc and then the defiant teenager archetype kicks in oh my god

(1:06:44) I’ve just lost myself again and becoming who this person wants me to be and then I’m gonna defy reel they get off the program you didn’t help me then they go and they look for another person and so on and then the coach keeps repeating the cycle over and over and over again and gets trapped in the Arrogant pathetic cycle which is I’m so arrogant that I can parent you I can control you I can change your body Etc and then feeling pathetic when they’re abandoned and when they can’t rescue anybody from themselves so how do we break free from

(1:07:15) this because this is I don’t know you can I guess you could translate this into how it happens in the medical system like I’ve seen it in Fitness and you know and you know Wellness in my world and how do we break free from this and it’s like recognizing the Dynamics of projection of our unresolved issues with Mom and Dad onto the people around us how we get seduced into participating in that when we want to get you know like the coach wants to get the approval of the outside world is look at the magic that I can do and it’s

(1:07:52) actually okay well I’m not here to parent you not your mom I’m not your dad I have that conversation often times with my clients and you know it’s in my power section the introduction to my program you know like I’m not your mom I’m your dad I’m here to give you the tools so that you learn how to become your own coach and learn how to parent yourself oh you went and you had I don’t know whatever Doritos whatever how did it feel that’s my magic question how did it feel because it’s about reconnecting them with their body and consequence

(1:08:18) because I’m not the teacher consequences and I go okay well you know that when you eat I don’t know your meat and whatever you feel amazing you don’t have cravings blah blah blah when you eat this other thing you feel what you just described so now the choice is yours and the responsibility is yours I am not responsible for you like your consequences are of no consequence to me but they are to you so then you choose what experience you want to have is it good is it bad no it just leads to consequences so choose it’s a simple and

(1:08:53) I don’t and by the way like why am I aware of this because I’ve done it myself a gazillion times you know like and again I still catch myself you know but it’s the aware I’m learning I’m growing just like everybody else is but it’s about us learning to be present to ourselves to our little girl wi or little boy witness them and parent them so that we don’t go looking for other people to parent as an excuse to not parent ourselves yep that’s what it’s all about I am so grateful to walk this path with you and to just feel that much less

(1:09:42) crazy so I’m able to self- validate through your presence know it’s it’s really amazing to have come to such similar conclusions and to engage in really the it’s like an adventurous almost like I don’t know game or sport to begin to like hunt these patterns and observe these phenomena and once you have the initial experiences of moving through the shame of like I have participated very actively in my own subjugation in my own suffering and I really love my Victim story and I love contributing to more of it like once you

(1:10:19) can move past you know and through that initial stage it becomes almost in some ways is delightful I have to say you know to really begin to Ally with that locus of control being inside and therefore it’s never anyone else’s fault and I know you agree and it’s amazing how many resources you’ve put out on this subject and so we’ll make sure that your links are in show notes and I just want to thank you for for doing what you’re doing and showing up so authentically it’s really such a pleasure to know you well thank you kayy

(1:10:53) so much for sharing your space with me and with the people that participate in your conversations and I’m super grateful that the Universe brought us together as I either intended to or empath that day listening to you Joe Rogan and just like to say to everybody we’re literally all just walking each other home together as we share our perceptions and and my greatest teachers have been my clients and the people around me and little and I’m just grateful to everybody for their participation in this experience and it’s a magical ride so

(1:11:33) let’s just enjoy it like Kelly was say was saying it’s delightful let’s just enjoy it absolutely thank you woman