(00:02) we have been duped by feminism sexual Liberation and anti-depressants we have been told that we are powerful and free now as women but we feel tired wired and bitter we’re mostly eating right exercising and meditating wrangling to-do lists and arranging playdates and yet there’s a haunting holess beneath the huge complaint what if I told you that there is a huge Storehouse a reservoir of energy inside of you that has not been tapped that you could feel light and pulsing excited and alive in ways that a wellness lifestyle
(00:49) cannot deliver that you could trust yourself that the world could feel safe and that unexpected and expected Delights could start to illuminate your path no coach therapist doctor or Guru required just you learning to get real present and attentive with you I feel like I’m here to matchmake your inner parts for the greatest love affair ever written I want to help you learn first where you’re buying eggs from the hardware store which is the source of all pain I want to help you master entering through the upset which is the
(01:27) only spiritual practice You’ll Ever Need and to get real comfortable putting on your villain Crown which is in my opinion the key to True power and then you’ll attune to your inner yes so you can live the life defined by the specific pleasure of who you are I am so excited to announce my latest book called The reclaimed woman which is available for pre-order now so if you head to the link in show notes you can learn more about bonuses events and companion offerings and I cannot wait to see your gorgeous face on the
(02:07) [Music] path I’m Dr Kelly Brogan you may know me as a New York Times bestselling author of a book with an exploding pill on the cover Renegade psychiatrist P dancer or honorary member of the disinformation doesn’t what can I say I’m a born provocator I’ve spent most of my recent life exposing deceptions connecting dots and discovering the secret places my inner victim is still waiting to be liberated and now I feel called to help you reclaim all of your parts your health your sexuality your power and your expression so that you can finally
(02:46) truly own yourself I want to ignite in you that inner knowing and the pulsing Vitality that lives beneath your disempowerment disconnection and resentment so that you can audaciously courageously and playfully alchemize your struggle into the specific pleasure of who you are this is Reclamation radio a soulfire production hi and welcome back to Reclamation radio I am Dr Kelly Brogan and today I am going to be talking about my favorite topic which is victim Consciousness I want to mention now and I will mention again a little later that
(03:29) there is a free presentation like slideshow that I put together that accompanies this it’s a little bit of a deeper dive that you can access in the show notes so I have said many times and I’ll say it again that I believe victim Consciousness to be the only human pathology it is the driver of suffering it is the force behind what we call evil and it hurts because it’s meant to right so it’s like that Krishna myy quote that I often reference that it’s no sign of Health to be well adapted to a profoundly sick Society well it should
(04:08) never feel okay to rest in the illusion of victimhood and so that hurting that suffering that struggle is the invitation to transmute and transform and this process this metamorphosis from the Resonance of victim Consciousness into sovereignty through re clamation is actually what I think we came here for I think it’s really what this maturational journey of being a human is predicated on at least through my very biased perspective so we all have a victim story and it’s often very unique however there are a lot of
(04:50) common themes and this victim story drives an experience of relationships so all the world is relationships right so not only literal interpersonal Dynamics but the way that you relate to money the way that you relate to material possessions the way that you relate to your purpose and your mission your role in society these relationships can be based on fear and therefore reflexive efforts to control or there could be a shift where the experience of what is not wanted is metant with curiosity because there is a foundational trust
(05:28) and that metamorphosis that shift involves the changing of a story so when it comes to our victim stories they tend to drive I found that most of them Drive experiences of disappointment and resentment like that is the fetish of the victim those emotional states of disappointment and resentment and there tend to be patterns that we revisit over and over and over again that allow this disappointment and resentment to kind of f so you know maybe your story is is as it’s been mine actually nobody has my back maybe it’s everybody always leaves
(06:06) me in the end he took advantage of me betrayed me deceived me this always happens to me I have it harder than everyone else no one understands me I’m broke I’m sick I’m alone I’m a failure it’s in my genes it’s my brain chemistry I have no luck right so these are the stories that are behind our experience of our have toos right the things that you have to do our experience of not having a choice and the stuckness that I think is actually what can drive us to the brink right it’s like that copian you know stuckness right like
(06:49) just rolling that boulder up the mountain and it’s going to come back down you got to do the damn thing again and again and again in perpetuity I’ve actually written a link to it an essay on how I think the biggest lie that we tell ourselves often when we’re in Rock Bottom States is that it’s never going to change right like it’s always going to be like this and we experience that stuckness because it can be very real so the Dynamics of what carpman referred to as the victim triangle which I’m sure most of you have heard of at this point
(07:22) thankfully which is the they go by different names but the villain so the bad guy the one you’re finger poined ing at the victim who says poor me no fair and The Rescuer and I speak a lot about how we can hide in the rescuer with our appeasement and caretaking and savior energy and our activism our philanthropy our altruism however the energy of each of these angles of the triangle is exactly the same it is victim Consciousness and this energy is fundamentally what could be called par iic because it needs an outside source
(08:03) so it needs to draw from outside of itself in order to survive and that’s why I think there is a lot of you know Polo fractal information for us to appreciate about what is being exposed on the world stage at the current moment when it comes to these dynamics that feed off of our human vital life force even if you want to look at AI through that lens right sort of the trans istic model what is it to to borrow from human life force what is it actually to harvest even human emotional energies right energies of Despair or rage or
(08:44) whatever is captured in this victim field of Consciousness all you have to think about is the last time you got upset and how much better it felt when you could recruit somebody else to validate how right you are about how wronged you’ve been you are drawing energy from that person into this supportive field of your own victim story right so victim stories always need you know sometimes it’s called like loou like they always need outside energy and these Dynamics are characterized by belief fields that involve beliefs of worthlessness
(09:28) helplessness and powerlessness because of that all you can ever really touch on is like a little hit like a surrogate hit of power or capacity or self value right so it’s always coming from the outside so it’s never the real thing and what’s interesting about each of the roles in these victim triangles is that they actually want to sustain themselves there so The Rescuer doesn’t actually want to save the victim because then The Rescuer would be like out of a job right so the rescuer actually needs the victim
(10:04) to stay a victim this is obviously not conscious right and of course the victim is often the villain through another lens and these Dynamics end up being very very sustainable right so you can stay in this for a lifetime you can rest in this place and that’s why I would like to share with you what I have come up with as the eight signposts of victim Consciousness this is basically my spiritual practice this is my religion okay and I hold myself accountable to these eight premises on a daily basis and I have been doing this kind of work
(10:46) in my life for many years now and I am doing it every single day right so I think it is really just the awareness that we bring to these old habits learned in childhood past down through many generations these old habits of resting in victim Consciousness we can bring awareness and therefore the Power of Choice to would otherwise be a reflexive perpetuation of the same habit of indulging in the worthlessness the helplessness and the powerlessness of course nobody wants to be any of those things however it can feel kind of as
(11:27) good as it can get like that’s what we tell ourselves to just be right about how wronged we are and there is a place we can get to I’ve touched it I’m sure you have as well where you actually don’t need to be right and you don’t need anyone else to be bad and wrong in order to know what inspired action looks like in order to know what your next step must be it becomes clear okay so let’s dive in number one is that you engage in commiseration connection that’s what I call it which is using the currency interpersonally of complaint
(12:11) right so you might start to pay attention to the way that you talk to friends and colleagues and your employer employees the people that you interact with even your kids and you might start to notice wow pretty much all I share with others is my problems right are the things that I don’t like are the poor me stories and this habit of connecting through commiseration is sometimes passed down right this is how we connected to our families of origin I have noticed that it’s very common that we do this actually through our
(12:44) experience of health and the system supports this right so that you might have a family experience where all yall talk about is what’s wrong with your health and what the state of it is right so like catching up on each other’s ailments all time or it might be that you’re complaining about your husband all the time or your you know struggles with Finance all the time and it can be a very very uncomfortable shift to begin to play with right titrate into connecting through celebration and sharing what is awesome about your life
(13:21) experience even if it’s a little thing to begin you know when you have that moment in your life of really enjoying something that’s crossing your path might you actually share that we have all sorts of reasons I believe related to our mother woundology and I think especially women that we self- attenuate right so we make ourselves smaller so that others can feel comfortable in our presence and how can you just begin to start to share things that reflect your level of power and capacity the other thing is that when we focus on are
(13:59) problems and let’s say your problem involves another person or you know maybe your health Freedom activist and involves the system or whatever it is there is a specific Focus that you bring to bear over and over and over again in your conversational Dynamics I have called this the erotic caress of the enemy because what happens is you say you hate this thing but you like literally can’t stop thinking about it like you’re you’re just checking in with it all the time and you’re wanting to know what the status of it is and you’re
(14:30) outside of your own lane of business in someone else’s business all the time and often this is a very powerful way to avoid what it is that you’re actually experiencing on the inside what it is that you’re actually feeling on the inside and it’s a very common habit that we project the qualities that we don’t have intimacy with on the inside onto this enemy and then we don’t have to look at it right it’s easy to maintain that fragmentation right so if I have this like inner totalitarian right I have this like
(15:06) pushy bossy I will you know exert and assert power over you no matter what you know because that’s the only way I can feel safe in the world if I have a dimension of myself that I imagine I don’t have because I’m like you know egalitarian Freedom loving libertarian or whatever that’s what I think I am then I might engage in the erotic OB excessive press of the totalitarian energy of you know said governmental Authority or you know whatever it is that I imagine is oppressing and persecuting right because I don’t want
(15:43) to develop intimacy with the possibility that I may actually have that inside and that I would probably lose love or experience rejection or abandonment if anyone were to see it right so this erotic caress of the enemy is how we stay in connection to our own projected fragments it’s kind of an amazing psychological mechanism if you ask me okay so number two is that you have a sense of superiority over others right so this is very common I think in the new age in the spiritual world where there is something like a spiritual
(16:24) meritocracy that gets set up and sometimes this is called spiritual ego which is that like all of your fear-based you know sense of self is just translated into spiritual lingo and a spiritual construct of understanding who it is that you are and why it is you know that you are safe from judgment because now you’re a good spiritual person well most people pursue spirituality because they want to feel better right they want to feel better and they want to not feel bad and so what can happen is that this sense of
(17:01) gaining security through our goodness and through the experience of feeling Beyond reproach like nobody there’s nothing to expose right nobody can see anything I’m doing the good thing I am the good girl right that can just get translated and then we can get into this even like inner experience let alone like how it is supported socioculturally of needing to do the next spiritual thing in order to experience our ourselves as you know growing maturing evolving developing Awakening becoming more enlightened and there becomes this
(17:38) sense that people who are not doing the work right so they’re not doing the plant medicine they’re not doing the inner child’s meditation they’re not doing the shadow work they’re not cleaning up their diet you know these Muggles these sheep these people who are choosing to stay asleep perhaps that they are somehow lesser and it’s almost like we want to experience a reward that perhaps isn’t inherent to the process for our hard work so the reward must be that we are are better people now and we’re not only better people than others
(18:10) who are not doing the work but we’re actually better people than we were and so you know I’ve been many many people in this lifetime so I learned early on I think that if I reject the version of me who was medicating pregnant and breastfeeding women and thinking that was the best thing for me to do for Humanity I reject that person and I say well I was I was a bad person then let alone you know when I might have like lied cheated or stolen or whatever I was a bad person then and I’m a good person now then I am setting up this
(18:43) meritocracy not only within myself but I will apply that grid to others and it is founded you know on victim Consciousness right that I need to establish this hierarchy that isn’t actually based on a superiority of competence in a given skill that’s just actually based on my goodness right so I work very hard in my life and I want credit for it damn it I work very hard to resolve my sense of superiority over those who I feel might have hurt me right or wronged me or transgressed me right and how is it that I can access a place where like I said I
(19:25) don’t need others to be bad and wrong in order to assess my choices what are my choices do I need to validate my choices no I don’t I just need to know what they are and to move in the direction of what is my next best step okay number three is the sense of needing to fix so some would argue that this is an immature masculine which again is in all of us an immature masculine tendency which stems from an incapacity to hold the discomfort of something being different than we want it to be so when we need to fix something on the outside when we
(20:04) need to make it’s the same theme right wrong what is right instead of first accepting you know what is and maybe even approving of it because as Byron Katie would say you know how do you know something you know should be the way that it is well you know because it is that way right that’s how you know that it should be that way right so if you are in a habit of needing to fix what you deem to be wrong on the outside in order to feel okay like there’s no possibility that you could access a sense of okayness on the inside even
(20:39) just for moments even just sort of you know the feeling of your back on the chair and the strength of your spine right if you must fix something on the outside and for me that would usually be through like a communication right like so I have to send the email I have to send the text you know I have to make my case you know for why something needs to change this is the micromanagement of reality let alone other people and it is fundamentally something that stems from an experience of One’s Own inability to control their okayness which we really
(21:13) couldn’t on a lot of levels in the important ways as children right we couldn’t get into a car and drive away and leave a dynamic that was not working for us right so we may have carried that into our adulthood and it could be time to refresh our senses and Orient to the fact that we actually have a lot of agency if not complete agency over our state of ESS and how to access it unconditionally so we’ll pause here for a message from our sponsor my membership Community vital life project so if you want to hang with me ask me questions in
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(22:09) com okay so number four is that you have the belief that your role is to save the world and to save others and I have a lot to say on this subject having could I call myself like a recovering activist I don’t know maybe that could work as a title the belief that it is your role to save another person let alone to save the world the hubis in that is quite remarkable let alone to save the world first of all how about you just focus on your damn self okay how about you just clean up your life how about you just clean up your relationships and how
(22:49) about you develop intimacy with yourself like a deep intimacy with all the things that you don’t want to feel and all the parts that are holding you know these dimensions of yourself that you really hope nobody ever notices right before you Channel all of your energy into your certitude that the world should be a certain way how can you be so sure that you know how the world is supposed to you’re the authority right so this this is literally what I have experienced that I felt myself to be the authority on how
(23:22) the world should be on how people should raise their children on how they should engage the system on what is right and what is wrong for another person I can only know that for myself and even knowing that for myself has been a multi-decade journey right so when I imagine that it is my role to save another person or save the world what’s interesting because I am in The Rescuer role of the victim triangle is that I am actually reifying the powerlessness of that individual that I am purporting to save because I’m saying they couldn’t do
(23:57) it without me they need need my information they need my attention they need my money whatever it is they couldn’t do it without me and as I said The Rescuer doesn’t actually want the victim to be saved because the relationship would crumble and so there is an investment in things actually staying wrong right so there are a lot of activists who experience deep shod and Freud when things go badly like all you got to do is like scroll Instagram to see all the memes that are like you know it’s like a deer munching on
(24:31) popcorn or whatever and the caption is like you know all the conspiracy theorists loving watching everything they ever said you know was going to be true to be true or whatever right like there’s so many of that there’s so so much of that like I told you so I told you so so the attachment to being right about how wronged we’ve been and it seems so innocent but the energetic Resonance of that is the same literally it is the same it is the simulacrum of the problem that we say we are fighting and I speak all of this from deep
(25:06) personal experience I have only learned about this through my own exposure to to my shadow around my activism so the reification of the helplessness worthlessness and powerlessness I mean it sounds crazy but of that who you know this Anonymous victim that you imagine that you are saving or maybe it is a real victim right maybe it’s your friend that you’re trying to help you know help them pay their rent and you’re like Hey listen I’m just going to like wire you $1,000 what you are doing especially when they haven’t asked for it that’s an
(25:37) important the consent around the dynamic can change everything however what you’re doing is actually reifying that they can’t figure this out they can’t access their Creative Energy they can’t Divine unseen solutions to their problem because of their inherent power they need you for that and it’s really not true right and that’s not to suggest that we don’t need each other however when we ask for help is quite a different thing than when we apply and even impose help okay number five is really the linguistic and semantic
(26:11) spells that we cast in our lives I have made a Vigilant practice of specifically noticing when I use the phrase have to right I might say I have to go and I will find another way to say that it could be as simple as I am going now it’s like this subtle but very very different energetic signature to my language right so there are phrases like have to no choice right I had no choice had to go to the doctor I had no choice I had to take the medication or get the chemotherapy or whatever should is another one and hate this right I hate
(26:52) this I actually find when we are honest about that language within ourselves like when I’m honest about what it is that I hate in my own life I have a very clear window into where it is that I am imagining I have no choices right or that I being victimized by a malevolent Universe right and so I look for this language and specifically around the half I find alternative ways of expressing because the truth is you don’t have to anything you do not have to anything literally nothing nothing you don’t have to brush your teeth you
(27:23) don’t have to feed your kids you don’t have to take a shower you don’t have to go to work nothing so the only way for us to make contact with our power of choice is to acknowledge that actually we’re choosing every single thing number six is the experience of disappointment and resentment and what I call the covert exchange so I mentioned that disappointment and resentment are the emotional signatures of victim Consciousness and I I feel like I have like a like a PhD additional degree in these emotions I have spent so so much
(27:58) of my life feeling disappointed and resentful especially I would say I experience it in my business right and that’s how I have grown so much through the spiritual experience of Entrepreneurship because I would start to notice like you know I would hire this vendor or that vendor or you know have have this expectation of somebody on the team or I would you know launch this product or whatever this book and I would chronically exper experience disappointment right and for me the the Hallmark phrase is like what the
(28:34) that indignant disappointment is something that I have learned I actually enjoy and Carolyn Elliot’s Work has helped me so much in this regard I’ll link another book report I wrote on her most excellent book below and helped me to go Beyond seeing patterns of disappointment and resentment as simply you know familiar and actually taking me to the place where I recognize that the bodily sensations of the first hit of disappointment or resentment are actually quite arousing and quite enjoyable and then until I recognize
(29:11) that I am playing a very active role in cultivating and co-creating the conditions for said disappointment and resentment then it’s not possible to derive that arousal and sensory fulfillment through pleasure and exercise my power of choice to get me to that place so what happens often is that we set up situations where we’re not clear about what it is that we want what it is that we need or how realistic it is to secure that thing through a given situation or circumstance and so we end up giving or doing a thing or creating
(29:47) an opportunity or offering somebody you know an experience and we actually want them to appreciate to give something to show up in a certain way and we assume that they can mind read and that they would know that so that unspoken exchange when unfulfilled is often how you smoke out this victim because you’ll see oh wow I feel resentful but like did I actually ever even ask for what I wanted or was it just like a covert expectation so I teach my daughters all the time like my youngest daughter let’s say she is she’s like this very like
(30:23) devotional being like lovely human and she often does things for others right like she’ll go like get her sister you know water to drink or bring her something she left in the other room and so I’ll say to her I say listen it’s important to consider how it would be for you to do these things for others if they didn’t appreciate it would you still do it right so if there’s an attachment to how something we are offering whether it’s an opportunity or otherwise is being received then there’s a covert exchange happening right where
(30:57) we are expecting something in return that were that’s not actually in in the agreement right that’s not actually on the table when I was in private practice I would notice that sometimes with certain patients I would go over time right so let’s say I would like allow the appointment to go 10 minutes over time and I had one or two experiences where a patient would become upset about my being unavailable for a certain kind of communication let’s say or contact or whatever later on and inside myself I would say like how dare you I gave you
(31:30) all that extra time right after all those appointments and the truth is I didn’t actually want to give that time I did it with a covert exchange and expectation for appreciation and gratitude and when that appreciation and gratitude wasn’t available then my resentment or indignance was exposed right so how is it that we can be real about what it is that we want and need from an experience from an exchange so that we can break that very ingrained habit of sourcing fulfillment through the subconscious co-creation of
(32:03) conditions that are going to result in disappointing energies right like even in my business one of the things that I do now all the time is I recognize that deadlines and time containers and integrity of word a really big deal to me so rather than just sort of see manipulatively right whether or not somebody that I might commission or hire or contract with is just going to do it right the way I wanted to because it’s very nebulous right and and maybe I actually subconsciously don’t want them to do it right so that I can experience
(32:33) that delicious disappointment so these days I am really clear that deadlines and you know coming through following through on what it is that you say you’re going to do is very very valuable currency to me and so this way if somebody doesn’t do it it’s not like a hm hey it’s just sort of like okay they can’t meet this need so probably we’re going to part ways right and it’s it’s actually really neutralized and nobody needs to be bad and wrong so that leads me to number seven which is my favorite pet phrase where are you buying eggs from the
(33:07) hardware store so someone in victim Consciousness which arguably is all of us at this point attempts to buy eggs from the hardware store attempts to Source something from a place they already know cannot provide what it is that they want right so this could be attempting to Source health and wellness from the alope AIC medical system they don’t sell that there right this could be attempting to Source emotional security from your partner who fundamentally has incompatible needs with yours right who needs tons of space
(33:42) while you need tons of connection for example it could be in a business Dynamic like I referenced where you want somebody to provide you a certain type of service yet they’ve already showed you that they even though they might be s they can that they can’t right they like literally just can’t right it could be hoping that one day somehow your mother or father will show you the love that you’ve longed for you know since you were a child but somehow you know that they actually can’t do that right so when we get to this place where we
(34:17) see and we deeply acknowledge that feeling that we have like that sense in our bones that what we want is just not available here then it’s not a value judgment any longer and like I said no one needs to be bad and wrong it’s just that this thing is it’s not going to work this thing is not going to work and that’s okay because there’s an incompatibility of needs right like does the butcher need to be wrong if you’re a vegan going there for a meal and they don’t sell vegan meals that’s like just they don’t sell it
(34:50) there and you were going there insisting that they sell it there right so this petulent energy of like you own me how dare you right give this to me is very familiar from our childhoods mostly and it’s a compensation for the experience of wanting something so deeply so badly knowing it’s not available and continuing to attempt to Source it there right because this is how we get into so many dysfunctional romantic relationships is that we recreate the conditions of an experience of impossible love of attempting to convert
(35:25) someone who does not know how to love us in the way we can feel love into someone who can because that will fulfill the childhood fantasy that finally the love will be available instead of recognizing where we can Source the love where is it available if it’s not available here then where might it be available and how can we actually begin to mature and evolve our Heros such that that actually is attractive to us tiate into that right okay and Lesly is scarcity and entitlement right so where is it that you experience there being scarcity
(36:07) right which normally shows up as it’s here for others it’s not here for me it’s here for others and it’s not here for me and often this can translate into powerlessness helplessness and a lot of spellcasting through our language so whenever you say I can’t afford it so what’s actually going on is that you don’t value what it is that you’re saying you can’t afford in the same way that the person who is setting the fee for it values it if you did then you would relate totally differently to that potential exchange but when we say I
(36:43) can’t me I have to all of this we are electing to participate in a world where there are limited resources only certain people get them and we don’t we don’t no fair this sucks right so it’s it’s that very familiar resonance again from the powerlessness of our own early experience that we begin to co-create and manifest in our adult life and what often is coupled with scarcity Consciousness is a sense of entitlement you better do this for me you owe me this I’m not going to feel better until I get this from you and what’s
(37:25) interesting is to consider the possibility that that was actually modeled for us by our parents right so if your parents needed you to behave a certain way in order for them to feel okay right so if we didn’t get unconditional access to our parents approval and love which most of us did not and our parents insisted that our Behavior change right you better clean your room before you come and talk to me about anything else right they need our Behavior to change and order for okayness to be available inside of them
(38:02) that sense of entitlement is modeled you better change right you better do this for me in order for me to feel okay and this is pervasive in a lot of the politicized dialectic that we see where there you know there are certain socially engineered I would say political movements that are predicated on an entitlement to modify another person Behavior right you better do this or I won’t be okay I’m not really sure if we have an entitlement to demand that another person’s Behavior change we have control over our own choices and how to
(38:41) work within our own sphere of influence which actually ends right at the the limits of our Aura let’s say so working with this scarcity and entitlement just recognizing when we’re in that kind of languaging can also help us to really begin to shift out of a sense that we are living in a random Universe right and we need to make things happen versus you know a magnetic Universe a vibrational Universe versus experiencing meaning saturating every dimension of our being and resting into that trust and curiosity you know that I I
(39:20) referenced I mean I am a believer that accessing that Curiosity requires a fundamentally healed nervous system you know so that’s why I am so passionate about vital mind reset because if you can confer that in a month or so then you have so much more access to these empowered ways of relating psychologically let alone emotionally to the rest of your life because it’s really not available when you’re arrested in fight flight freeze and fawn when your stress physiology is what commands your reality and you don’t have
(39:55) access to your healthy neuros ception as it’s called right which is the perception of safety on the outside and you are perceiving danger where actually there isn’t danger in other humans in situations and Dynamics where you’re seeing you know an intruder and a perpetrator looming over your bed when all that’s you know over there is a pile of laundry on a chair you actually don’t have choices so the choices become available first when you begin to do what I call the chopping wood carrying water of exercising choice CH over your
(40:28) lifestyle and then when your system is actually integrated and healed enough and caught up to date with your current reality oriented enough such that you can begin to apply curiosity where previously there was potentially only unconscious fear and unexamined reflexive defenses and motivations that were hidden you know from our own conscious awareness so I hope that this was a helpful little template and if you want to explore a little more about it you can check out the free video presentation that will be linked in the
(41:05) show notes all right talk later
